National road numbers

i understand ref is the main tag for road numbering, nobody doubts this

the main reason i proposed nat_ref is that this numbering scheme is vague, not specifying what happens with old and new sections coexisting, also bypassing cities is not supported by any official documents

the majority of signs on the ground are obsolete, wrong or they dont mention road numbers whatsoever

i think this numbering scheme does not serve any purpose, it only makes things complicated and confusing

thats my point of view

Since numbering of the highways is universal, common for everyone either they live at Greece or abroad, the tags nat_ref, reg_ref are useless.
Only in case, that there were not existence of prefix A, EO or ΕΠ this tag should be useful.
For example, ref:1 (that should mean A1), nat_ref:01 (that should mean EO1) and finally reg_ref:40 (that should mean ΕΠ40)
Only the creator of these tags should give as an answer on what he did exactly mean.

the only prefix is A for motorways and they are mentioned in the latest goverment decision in 2015

there are no prefixes ΕΟ and ΕΠ, they are just abbreviations of Εθνική Οδός (National Highway) and ΕΠαρχιακή οδός (provincial road)

we decided to use reg_ref just because these provincial road numbers are local (there are about 40 ΕΠ1) and we are also use network=GR:provincial with a number for each prefecture, also there no provincial road signs anywhere

there are also unofficial refs for new sections mentioned in okxe maps and road statistics documents, like X16 and ΕΟ1Β which should not be seen in openstreetmap as they are not appear in any signs

Yes, you are right, the right word is abbreviation.

But does it make any useful difference the usage of reg_ref/nat_ref instead of single ref?
It is not even printed on the map, if I noticed well.
How is it used at other countries?

I make a custom GARMIN map of Greece out of the OSM data you provide, targeted at mountaineering and outdoor activities. It is just the ref road ID I take and put as a road name. If you omit the ΕΟ/ΕΠ abbreviations of Εθνική Οδός/ΕΠαρχιακή οδός, I will simply not display them, which is obviously wrong.

ΕΟ/ΕΠ have their semantics too and my opinion is that they should be present along with the numbers.


So I noticed well. reg & nat ref do not appear on any data of the map!

thats the whole point, we dont want nat_ref and reg_ref to appear anywhere, they are used simply for documentation, as you will never see X16 and ΕΠ2 on signs in real life

dido3 the fact that you are using refs as names doesnt concern us here, i hope you understand this

Correct me if I misunderstood. If you mean that these tags do not get displayed on the map at, this does not mean something is right or wrong. What we see at is just one of the possible maps that someone can create with the data. I like to think of it as a simple preview, useful for us editors, not the best map for general use.

As I said, these tags do not appear on the map, I didnt say that these tags are loss of data.
But if these tags is important to be visible, there should be in a diferent usage.

Where and when exactly did mappas or anyone else said anything about “loss of data”???

It is in my opinion that we should not complicate the system of road numbers, and we are also not tagging just for the renderer too.

Just because a road number is on the standard layer does not mean that one must use them on their maps.

It has to do more with a personal conversation we had about tags.

Για τις επαρχιακές οδούς, επίσημα χρησιμοποιούμε το reg_ref?
Το λέω γιατί συναντώ και την εκδοχή ref=ΕΠ13 & reg_ref=ΕΠ13
Να επισημάνω πως το reg_ref δεν αποτυπώνεται οπτικά στον χάρτη παρά μόνο όταν κάνουμε EDIT και δεν βοηθάει στο να καταστρώσεις διαδρομές.

Looking at the history of way 126985470 (, erenozdemir appears to have brought it back.

On ID editor menu only plain “ref” is used, i guess we should use only plain ref for all Greek roads, since the difference is indicated with the prefix EO & ΕΠ.
I think it is also important the indicator of the Road Number to be shown on the map, and this is made only with plain “ref”.

I just noticed that all references are shown except reg_ref

My personal preference is ref=*, but I await further opinion.

Κανείς να πει την άποψή του?

Σύμφωνα με το wiki, το reg_ref είναι για regional reference, το οποίο ελληνιστί υποθέτω σημαίνει ο κωδικός αναφοράς για την εκάστοτε περιοχή (το οποίο για την Ελλάδα αφορά περιφερειακή ενότητα, αφού ανά τέτοιο αριθμείται). Δηλαδή σίγουρα θα αφορά, για την ελληνική περίπτωση, επαρχιακές οδούς, αφού η αρίθμηση τους διαφέρει ανά νομό, και ως value μπαίνει π.χ. το ΕΠ13. Αλλά μόνο για το reg_ref θα μπαίνει αυτή η τιμή, αφού το σκέτο ref αφορά γενικό κωδικό αναφοράς. Το ΕΠ13 όμως σαν ref συναντάται και στους υπόλοιπους νομούς, δεν είναι μοναδικό για την Ελλάδα δηλαδή. Και από την στιγμή που σαν επίσημη λίστα των επαρχιακών οδών τα ΦΕΚ δεν αναφέρονται στους νομούς με κωδικούς, ώστε να λέει π.χ. 0313 για ΕΠ13 νομού Κοζάνης, θεωρώ δεν χρειάζεται να συμπληρώνεται το ref.

Σωστά, έτσι ακριβώς.

Και δεν έχει καμία σημασία το οτι το reg_ref δεν εμφανίζεται στον κύριο χάρτη του OSM. Σε έναν άλλο χάρτη με άλλες ρυθμίσεις του renderer μπορεί να εμφανίζεται.
Έχει ειπωθεί χιλιάδες φορές: “Don’t tag for the renderer”

Το δυνατό επιχείρημα σου είναι αυτό, κατά τη γνώμη μου, καθότι διαπίστωσα με την αλλαγή νομού η αρίθμηση του ίδιου δρόμου να αλλάζει.