Refreshing a thread from the old Forum: The use of the "name" tag across Algeria
This topic has recently re-surfaced, with reports being made that a fairly new User has taken it upon themselves to start renaming towns etc in French only.
Please see Changeset: 162793216 | OpenStreetMap for most recent comments, then please discuss it further here & attempt to reach a consensus!
Thanks!
Please also see How to tag addr:city for multilingual city names - #3 by ilias
The editing war over use of multilingual names has now erupted again 
I again urge all Algerian mappers to please discuss it and try to come to a consensus amongst yourselves!
If the old Facebook group is still operating, could somebody please invite the members there to also participate?
There is nothing wrong with using foreign languages as secondary options, but the main priority should always be given to the official language of the state â Arabic, in the case of Algeria.
Currently, the map of Algeria often looks more like a French map, since a large portion of the names are in French.
Thatâs why the language policy should be clear: in the multilingual name field, Arabic should be the only entry so that, when zoomed out, the map displays Arabic names.
This gives the map a local and national identity that truly represents the Algerian people and culture, rather than appearing foreign.
There are a number of variables that will effect what language you see when you look at âThe Mapâ, including just which map youâre looking at (OSM home page?), which layer youâre looking at (Standard, Cycle, Transport etc) & also what you have set as your preferred language in OSM?
e,g,
is what I see as the Standard layer at Zoom 5, with English as my default language.
In case of multicultural country, and French, Tamazight, and Arabic are widely spoken in Algeria, there is nothing wrong as putting in name the various names, here
name=name:fr name:ber name:ar (so French and arabic being put first due to the different writing direction).
If somebody puts name=name:fr, itâs wrong.
If the Algerian OSM community prefers to switch from name=name:fr name:ber name:ar to name=name:ar, thatâs sounds be acceptable too, but Tamazight/Berber is also an official language according to Algeria - Wikipedia . So it would be wrong too.
@Fizzie-DWG the âStandardâ rendering is independent from your languages settings. You can use OSM Map Tiler or Shortbread to get the English version.
@Arab_Mapper you can use OSM Map Tiler or Shortbread to get the Arabic version.
Thatâs just a complete lie, Algeria has 2 official languages, Arabic and Berber. French is widely used in daily life, schools and administrations.
In any case, no one should listen to anything you have to say, as you have been banned around 8 times for vandalizing Algeriaâs map by deleting all Berber name tags and saying racist stuff against Berber people (see this changeset for all the details).
What a weird thing to say for someone who commented this on a changeset where they deleted a ton of Berber name tags:
âThere wonât be any left and Iâll erase you from existence, you Berber.â
I invite @TnWarrior to this discussion as theyâve been keeping track of all the racist actions of this repeatedly-banned user.
Now, going back to the name tag question in Algeria, endless discussions have been made (especially this one which ended in plain insults), but no consensus has even been reached. Each mapper has been doing whatever they want. Some mappers prefer French, other Arabic, others Berber, which has led to each mapper doing whatever they want and deleting/adding name tags, resulting in endless edit wars.
As one of the main mappers in neighboring Morocco, which has the same multi-languages situation, I propose to follow the same guidelines weâve been applying for years and which hepled avoid this kind of problem:
name=* in French, Berber and Arabic
name:fr=* in French
name:ber=* in Berber (or a more specific tag, for example name:kab for Kabyle areas. In Morocco we use name:zgh for Standard Moroccan Tamazight).
name:ar=* in Arabic
For street/POI names, we follow whatever is displayed on signs on the ground.
Youâll rarely find a contributor that speaks the 3 languages perfectly, but the Algerian community should remember this is a collaborative project, not a question of personal preferences. If you donât speak Berber, someone else in the country does, so donât go around deleting names in a language just because you donât speak it. Itâs still an official language in your country and many people do speak it a do feel represented by it.
Thank you for the proposal. The use of three languages, namely Arabic, Tamazight and French,ensures a fair representation of all communities.
Before any discussion, I ask him to restore the deleted labels and to apologize to Berber speaking cartographers.
I donât speak Arabic, so in regard to this comment: â٠ا بŮاش Ů ŮŮ ŘŮŮ٠٠٠اŮŮŘŹŮŘŻ Ůا بعبعâ, could you please give me a translation?
3 different auto-translators alternatively give âWhat a discussion and we erase you from existence, Berber.â, âWe will not let you go, Berbersâ and âWe will wipe you out, Berbers.â, which have very different meanings!
This is the translation. Unacceptable level of racism. @TnWarrior documented everything here.
Edit: Thanks @Fizzie-DWG for blocking the new account. In this case you can close tickets #2025100810000339 and #2025100810000321 (I somehow received 2 ticket numbers for the same email). Itâs all we can do until the user creates a new account.
Once again, another user has been mass-deleting French and Berber names and keeping Arabic only, with seemingly no prior discussion (this includes changing the whole countryâs name tag). Their changeset comments say âChanged to official languageâ, but Berber and Arabic are BOTH official languages in Algeria. French is even more spoken than Berber.
I invited them to this discussion and reported them to the DWG (Ticket #2025120410000021).
Edit: Changes were reverted.
Unfortunately, there is no actual OSM community in Algeria and even the Facebook group for the âAlgerieMapperTeamâ is inactive.
The issue of names displayed in Algeria has long gone without a proper solution or consensus between mappers.
Considering this, Iâve been going about it in a regional way (which might be slightly controversial but is seen across other countries like China in the regions of Tibet and Sin-tĂŹang which are both displayed in Mandarin /because it is the official language and widely spoken/ and local language /widely spoken in the region/). If applied to Algeria, youâd have Arabic and amazighiya (Berber) as official languages, and french as a widely spoken language in mainly urbanized and coastal wilayas (provinces).
And so, Iâve taken this into action and changed the name of the country from the ar+ber+fr format into the ar+ber format as any other country in the world would do (using the official languages of the state to display the name of the state) and is the most logical format to go with.
And the names of wilayas in the south (Adrar, TamanrassetâŚ..) from the fr only format to ar+ber format since french isnât widely spoken in such regions. As for northern areas or heavily urbanized wilayas (where french is still widely used) format change from fr only or fr+ar to ar+ber+fr seems like a logical choice.
As for city/major town names, ar+ber+fr is the default format. As for town names, it would depend on the wilayas (more urbanized wilayas like Algiers, Constantine, SĂŠtif, OranâŚ. should have fr in the format, while others like Batna, Khenchela⌠can get rid of the fr and only display ar+ber)
This is my proposal for a solution to these issues.
If anyone wants to create an actual community in Algeria then please message me or email me and we can discuss it further.
Implementing the Moroccan standard in Algeria is honestly something Iâve been considering to be among the solutions if not the only solution to the issue. Unfortunately, itâs impossible to do anything about it with no actual community here to discuss and finalise a solution, Iâll try to build some connections in the area and maybe form a group to discuss a solution better
I will explain the issue of language in Algeria. The official languages ââin Algeria are Arabic and Tamazight (Berber), which are the languages ââspoken by all the Algerian people, either Arabic or Tamazight or both together. Therefore, the names of cities, villages, hamlets, and natural places such as mountains and rivers should be written in Arabic and Tamazight (Berber), while it is fine to use only Arabic in the names of streets, neighborhoods, and public institutions.
Please send me your email address or Facebook account so I can contact you and we can discuss the language issue in Algeria and find a solution.
My Facebook account:
While people are free to talk about OSM wherever they like, doing it here in this forum has advantages - everyone in OSM already has a login, and automatic translation between at least some languages is supported.
Adopting a model inspired by Morocco, with three languages (arabic, berber, and french), is a practical and inclusive solution that reflects the reality of Algeria without excluding anything
french is still spoken by 15 million people in Algeria. it is present in administration, education, the media, and the economy, especially in major cities. on openstreetmap, the goal is to show actual usage; excluding it from osm would therefore not reflect reality.
It is better to consult the community before changing important names, rather than making this decision alone.
some examples of your changesets:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/180905857#map=10/35.7582/7.6465
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/180680904#map=9/35.748/5.960
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/180681418#map=10/35.2079/6.1615
Your analysis misses the point: osm must reflect actual usage, not just official status.french is used by 15 million people in daily life and business. excluding it ignores algeriaâs reality.to be useful for everyone, including the diaspora, the moroccan model (Arabic, Berber, French) is the only realistic and inclusive solution
