Missing Visual Representation for Node (life_ring)

vcr80 · 2024-07-12T06:52:05.517Z

Hy,

Node #12029562815 is a emergency=life_ring node. It is visible in the editor, but there is no visual representation in the normal map mode. When I query the features, the Node is detected.

The Wiki-Page even states that there is no known rendering on OSM.org.

What could I contribute, so that this important POI is rendered?

Thanks!

chris66 · 2024-07-12T06:57:24.490Z

Hi,
You could add a requests in carto issues but keep in mind that the “Standard” map is not an emergency map.

Issues · gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto · GitHub

chris66 · 2024-07-12T06:59:55.230Z

Existing issue:

Render emergency=lifeguard facilities · Issue #3629 · gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto · GitHub

vcr80 · 2024-07-12T07:04:10.404Z

Thanks! I created the issue.

Ah shoot. Saw your link to the existing issue too late.

Since emergency=phone is rendered, the missing rendering of life_ring seems odd.

phodgkin · 2024-07-12T17:37:44.020Z

vcr80:

Since emergency=phone is rendered, the missing rendering of life_ring seems odd.

Not that odd. It just means that nobody has proposed a rendering that has achieved a consensus. Looking at the issue tracker, it seems that the issue got stuck at this point. A 14 x 14 px SVG (as needed) was proposed, but wasn’t quite right, and there was no followup. It one contributor puts in the work to design an icon that people like, then it is highly likely that another OSM Carto contributor will create a PR to incorporate it.

vcr80 · 2024-07-12T18:02:48.202Z

Valuable hint, thank you! I‘ll try my best to create one and propose it as the icon.

SomeoneElse · 2024-07-12T18:02:51.244Z

The fundamental problem here is that any general map style needs to decide what to include and what not to include. That is compounded by OSM carto being limited by the relatively low (by 2024 standards) maximum zoom level of 19. There’s a discussion to be had about whether even at zoom 19 a life ring constitures “clutter”. In a different map style I went with a very small icon, at zoom 19 which you can see here. I suspect that anything larger than that would be a problem.

vcr80 · 2024-07-12T18:04:48.353Z

I don‘t think there‘s anything like „too much information“, especially since one could toggle things on and off. But as far as I’ve seen that’s a feature OSM doesn’t support.

SomeoneElse · 2024-07-12T18:07:54.138Z

vcr80:

especially since one could toggle things on and off. But as far as I’ve seen that’s a feature OSM doesn’t support.

Well, “osm” is just a big pile of data, and you can create whatever maps you like with it (subject to the licence terms). If you look at the link I gave above you’ll see that there are actually 6 layers that can be turned on and off, 2 of which are from OSM data only.

vcr80 · 2024-07-12T18:22:00.860Z

I don‘t fully agree. openstreetmap.org is the somewhat official visualization of that pile of data and should therefore include and visualize all of it.

phodgkin · 2024-07-12T20:25:32.696Z

SomeoneElse:

The fundamental problem here is that any general map style needs to decide what to include and what not to include. That is compounded by OSM carto being limited by the relatively low (by 2024 standards) maximum zoom level of 19. There’s a discussion to be had about whether even at zoom 19 a life ring constitures “clutter”.

Indeed. It’s impossible for one map style to “visualise of all it”. [As far as I can tell, OSM Carto “works” up to zoom 20, but most tile servers are configured to stop at 19.]

I think a 14 x 14 px icon will work at Z19, not least because life rings are spaced out. But you do have to prove that a proposal will work. Most issues get stuck at “Why is my thing not rendered? Please render my thing”, or worse, “This thing hasn’t been rendered for X years. You suck!”.

SomeoneElse · 2024-07-12T20:52:11.770Z

An interesting question would be whether any vector tile schemas include this data. Going forward, that’s going to be more important than whether OSM Carto shows it.

Shortbread v1.0 doesn’t seem to. I don’t know whether that is being suggested as the “first hosted vector tiles and map styles at osm.org”, but demos of minutely vector tiles have been made using this schema.

Hungerburg · 2024-07-13T23:06:22.497Z

I see useful maps goes up to zoom 25. Please add a tape measure, I have not idea of proportions there, is this m, cm, mm?

SomeoneElse · 2024-07-13T23:19:50.112Z

Hungerburg:

Please add a tape measure

That’s a great idea - if you have any suggestions of how to do that I’m all ears! It’s probably best discussed at https://github.com/SomeoneElseOSM/SomeoneElse-style/ rather than here as it’s not directly related to this help question.

Kovoschiz · 2024-07-14T05:09:59.665Z

Mapy Cz has length, and area measurement. As well as, aerial imagery, GPX viewing, 3D terrain, and globe view. More functionalities in Czech.

Kovoschiz · 2024-07-14T06:37:18.321Z

While I have my own wishes for Carto, and agree there should be improvements, I see it more as a basemap, besides a rendering benchmark, and editing QA. For raster tiles, an overlay may be more suitable, as seen in OpenRailwayMap, and OpenSeaMap. Then you can show them on any background you want, including with OpenSeaMap, Whitewaters, sports, fishing, AED, fire & rescue, and bathymetry plus waterways or watersheds. The latter can extend to rainfall, flooding, storm surge, wave overtopping, tsunami, etc.

Mammi71 · 2024-07-14T08:58:27.057Z

emergency.wambachers-osm.website

OpenStreetMap Emergency Map

life_ring is also not (yet) displayed, but if you ask @wambacher , I think it is more likely that it will be added than on osm-carto

chris66 · 2024-07-14T09:26:56.836Z

phodgkin:

Not that odd.

I agree, Life-rings are objects which tend to move.

Hungerburg · 2024-07-14T23:10:19.422Z

There is GitHub - ljagis/leaflet-measure: Coordinate, linear, and area measure control for Leaflet maps , but this is stale. Actually, I just wanted usefulmaps to show a scale, because I have no idea what zoom 25 is about!

BTW: In the area of my local knowledge, life-rings are quite stable in location.

SimonPoole · 2024-07-15T06:37:21.977Z

Mappy Cz is a commercial, non-open, product. Nothing against that, but promoting it here, particularly without making that clear, would seem to be against the rules of this forum.