Missing `name:en` tags causing display confusion

[ArchangelEkim (Michael C)]

As a uni student I studied Japanese for sometime, so I set my browser to include Japanese as one of my default languages because I wanted chrome to stop auto-translating websites. I have since kept that setting but I now notice on many OSM objects, since name:en is not specified but other name:xx tags are, they are displayed (in my case name:jp tags are used instead of name). I would like to request whether it is possible to set name:en tags en masse by copying name for places in Aus and NZ except if there already exists a name:en tag already or some other exclusion to avoid copying in non-english text. Otherwise can we have stronger guidance to make sure to include name:en as it is being increasingly preferred for localisation.

[aharvey (Andrew Harvey)]

I see this as two different issues,

1. should we typically setname:en? In the past many objects had name:en set together with name by maps . me / organic maps, with the idea being that name is the default language, but name:en specifies which language name is in. I think for objects in Australia it should be assumed this is English, unless name matches another name:* tag value. I think where a feature has some other name:*tag then it doesn’t hurt to set name:en but I think it’s not useful to do this for the majority of features that only have name and no other names in other languages set.
2. how the OpenStreetMap Website selects the name to display as the title given your browser config (Accept-Language header which is set in Chrome based on Settings > Languages > Preferred Languages) and preferences (under your OSM account > My Preferences there is “Preferred Language” and under the Advanced tab Preferred Languages. How do you have all of these set?

[ArchangelEkim (Michael C)]

Those are my settings, I have Japanese in the list because I can read it and like to keep Japanese text for when I am looking at Japanese content. However, in Aus and NZ there are a lot of place names with additional name:xx tags incl. name:jp but dont also include name:en. Nominatim and OSM by extension consider name deprecated and will prefer language specific name tags over name by default. Thus I am asking whether name:en can be added retrospectively

@aharvey

I think where a feature has some other name:*tag then it doesn’t hurt to set name:en

I guess in your view on place names that have name:xxalready applied but no name:en yet to ensure localisation preferences.

[ArchangelEkim (Michael C)]

I guess I could solve this with by removing the ja ref in the advanced pref of OSM… Still I think it should be required that name:en is included more maybe even just the default instead of name.

[lonvia]

@aharvey

should we typically setname:en?

That’s the standing practice when any localised name is present, To quote the wiki:

In cases where multiple languages are tagged for a name, the local-language name tag should be duplicated with the language-specific sub-key.

@aharvey

I think for objects in Australia it should be assumed this is English, unless name matches another name:* tag value.

True, but the information that something is in Australia is not always readily available. The website when given object info like in the screenshot in the original post, for example, doesn’t have that information. And “unless name matches another name:* tag value” is already an exception that’s not trivial to implement. (Also not always helpful. By that rule, the name in the original example must clearly be Maori, not English. Which opens a whole different can of worms about mass-adding name:en in New Zealand.)

That said I’d rather consider removing the Japanese names from these minor features. I doubt that Rangiora station has a Japanese name. Looks rather like an avoidable transliteration to me.

[Fizzie-DWG (Graeme Fitzpatrick)]

@lonvia

That said I’d rather consider removing the Japanese names from these minor features. I doubt that Rangiora station has a Japanese name. Looks rather like an avoidable transliteration to me.

I’d agree with that, unless the object in question has an actual Japanese name (in which case, it’s likely been transliterated into English!)

[ArchangelEkim (Michael C)]

Yeah actually I agree with this more, transliterations (of which there is a lot for both minor and major places) should be removed. I also think adding in the local name with the language suffix should still be done because transliteration machines are not always accurate, and data consumers do not use name because localisation/analysis is a pain if you do not know what the original language it is written in.

For example, Moscow is tagged with name=Москва, with the same value as name:ru=Москва. This tagging is important because it ensures that data consumers don’t need to infer the local language. OSM Wiki