Meaning of flag:type=signal

What does flag:type=signal mean? The documentation is self-contradictory and the history behind it raises even more questions.

The original approved proposal for man_made=flagpole included this clause and illustration:

Some flags are signals (at beach for swimmers).

However, that doesn’t appear to be a safety signal of any sort. It’s a Blue Flag, which advertises a tourism certification.

In 2017, flag:type=signal was first documented using the same Blue Flag but a less coastal definition:

A flag that marks a spot (like guard towers or places for first aid)

Since then, the definition has changed slightly:

Flag that marks a guard tower, first aid station, etc.

Marking the location of a guard tower or first aid station is very different than signaling a hazard to swimmers. Confusingly, the image that now illustrates the tag shows two distinct flagpoles: one flies a Blue Flag and the other flies lifeguard flags:

A Blue Flag doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with a beach or mark the location of a lifeguard tower:

Meanwhile, the 213 existing occurrences of this tag represent a variety of things: a flag in the middle of a field, a fake flagpole camouflaging cellular “signals” (hah), a boundary marker that served as a navigation aid to the Wright Brothers on some of their first flights, a flagpole for race signals during regattas, and finally a pole for lifeguard flags (nicely signposted as such).

A couple years ago, @LivingWithDragons asked how to map a storm warning tower or other post for safety flags, since the documentation made it sound like flag:type=signal was for something other than signals.

What should flag:type=signal represent in the context of the other flag:type=* values? Does it even represent a single concept, or should we split it into less ambiguous values?

I’ve always taken “signal flags” to mean flags used in ship to ship, or ship to shore, communications e.g International maritime signal flags - Wikipedia or for semaphore https://www.anbg.gov.au/flags/semaphore.html

In that case, about the only time they’d be mapped would be on a dedicated signal tower at a port or similar Signal station - Wikipedia

That page did also mention Coastal warning display tower - Wikipedia of which a few apparently still remain.

Hmm? Not sure if I’d call them “signal” flags? Warning flags perhaps?

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Fortunately I don’t know of any moored ship being micromapped to that extent. :wink: On the other hand, the man_made=flagpole documentation does mention the signal stations part of the seamark tagging scheme in passing but doesn’t elaborate. Great, one more completely distinct possibility skunking this tag!

Few original 19th century towers remain, but flagpoles serving the same purpose are still extremely common.

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But are they used for other flags as well, or only “storm” warnings?

Only storm warnings. We’d probably want to complement any flagpole tagging with a more direct tag for any hazard warning or weather condition message. That would enable us to tag other form factors, such as weather beacons atop skyscrapers.

Thought about that after I’d posted.

Another one I just thought of, but again not sure if it’s a signal flag or a warning flag? Red flags outside a shooting range File:Red Flag - geograph.org.uk - 170699.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

Can’t say until we figure out what a signal flag is! :slightly_smiling_face: I do think there’s a whole range of warning-related flags that we’ve left unencoded despite being common reasons to erect a prominent flagpole.

In Italy you often see workers waving an orange flag in front of road constructions as an alert signal, or attached to a construction sign to make it more visible, similar to the flashing lights they also put sometimes along signs (or even sharp bends)


The two main things I thought of as I read the title of this topic are:

supervised (or not) swimming at beaches, see (sorry, it’s German): Bedeutung der Flaggen | DLRG e.V., Node: 12053316226 | OpenStreetMap
(no) access to military training grounds that’s otherwise possible, i.e. picture: https://www.mechernich.de/fileadmin/_processed_/a/d/csm_3SchavenerHeide_cb2803d50e.webp, mapped flagpole: Node: ‪Gefahrenwarnflagge‬ (‪10717923758‬) | OpenStreetMap

made no own research but what you posted points to “it means nothing specific”

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I can’t remember, but I think that’s what I was thinking about.
The UK has areas used by the military for training that have public footpaths across them. If a red flag is raised (usually where the path crosses the boundary) then you are not allowed to enter, you may also hear gunshots.

Actually, I might have also been thinking of this:
In Porthleven, Cornwall the harbour has a breakwater (sea wall) that you can walk along. Near the end there is a mast, and if the orange buoy is raised you shouldn’t walk out along the breakwater. The photo shows why!

https://www.locationscout.net/united-kingdom/40871-porthleven

I think someone goes out and sets it when storms are forecast, but I don’t actually know.

Hopefully the sign also says “If you can’t see the flagpole, don’t go out there”!

Doing a bit of playing in TI though, it would appear that that particular flagpole would probably be a seamark:signal_station_warning:category=storm (used 170 times, but as per most seamarks, not documented)

Another option for it could also be flag:type=warning + warning=storm?

warning= is used 686 times, mainly for traffic hazards, but also including such gems as warning=danger! warning | Keys | OpenStreetMap Taginfo. This would also be a good tag option for firing ranges.

Edit to split into 2 posts

A question re the lifeguard flag mentioned above. On our (Australian) patrolled beaches, you have a pair of red & yellow flags to show where the safe swimming area is https://boatgoldcoast.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Surf-Lifesaving-Andy-Kancachian-1440x564_c.jpg (that photo also shows a yellow flag for “Take care” {Other options there are a green flag for “safe”, which I haven’t seen used for many years!, & a red flag for “danger”, usually together with a Beach Closed sign} & also a blue / white checked flag to show that surf boards must only be used outside of this area)

Would the red / yellow flags be “warning” flags?

yellow is “only” a warning: only experienced swimmers should go out, it’s dangerous.
red is more than a warning: not even very experienced swimmers should go out, swimming is extremly dangerous, your life is at risk.

Your green flag corresponds to the combined yellow/red flag with the inscription DLRG: swimming is supervised and safe.

Quote from: Key:seamark:type - OpenStreetMap Wiki

Signal station, warning node20x20 signal_station_warning A warning signal station is a place on shore from which warning signals are made to ships at sea. 107x35

And from Seamarks/Signal Stations - OpenStreetMap Wiki

Category seamark:signal_station_warning:category Definition
Storm storm A signal or message conveying information about storm conditions.

Or beach not currently monitored. So more “at your own risk” than “dangerous” in that case.

These days, yellow is the standard flag pretty well displayed on every patrolled beach, every day. As trial said, it’s a “Take care” warning, rather than “Dangerous” (Although swimming in the ocean is to some extent always dangerous!)