Every market has a lot of sellers which are a sort of temporary shops. There are older questions talking about this but none gave a decent answer.
1 - Is it allowed to add these to the map? (with building=no of course)
2 - Would it be an idea to have an extra option for these? Since there are millions of them worldwide. For example adding a special icon, or in vector maps just showing it on the day they are selling there? Somebody once made a ‘temporary_amenity’ tag but that isn’t used.
Generally you shouldn’t map temporary features:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#Don’t_map_temporary_events_and_temporary_features
How long are the sellers there for typically?
Not temporarely as in ‘one time’, but weekly.
They are there 1 day in the week, for many market-sellers this is their ‘shop’. The markets themselves are allready noted on the map.
An idea would be to make a sort of ‘seller’ tag which can be attached inside the ‘market’ tag. This would also solve the problem with multiple level shopping-malls where there is no space to visually place all locations.
If they reoccur at the same place at specific hours they can be mapped as a shops with opening_hours info and with Tag:street_vendor=yes - OpenStreetMap Wiki
if specific ones are not reoccurring at the same place you cannot map specific sellers, but entire marketplace is mappable
mapping all of them is still possible, especially interactive display can focus on more relevant ones
The ‘street_vendor =yes’ tag sounds in the good direction for a single vendor, thanks.
For the whole market I think a solution would still be creating a ‘seller’ tag (or something similar) for all sellers to add inside a market or shoppingmal tag, so they can simply be query’d. I think on a standard 2D map -like most of them now- it would really give a solution.
Is there any place I can suggest this for possible development?
note that it is only addition to regular shop= and amenity= tags
it is not clear to me what you suggest here
So you’re trying to say that the person in this tent sells fruit & vegetables, while this one is perfume, & that one is jewellery etc?
Are they in exactly the same spot every week / month when the market is operating?
If they are, something could be done, but if not, then no, they can’t be mapped in OSM.
Yes they are in the same spot every week, this is on purpose so clients can find them easier again.
Mateusz - The idea is to add more shops to the data-map then fit on the visual-map. Like shoppingmalls they can’t add all shops on multiple floors because there is no space. But when you add the tags of sellers/shops inside a ‘market’ tag (like seller=’Daily bread’ and seller=’Clothing Local’-’website=’www.’ etc) then people can still find them by using the query, which is used by most maps to find data.
You can create a map (of whatever) yourself…
I mean as an option to add to the official OSM, so people who use it can have a more realistic data-set of the environment.
Would that be an option?
It’s not really clear how what you are suggesting differs from the common practice of mapping shops as nodes inside the mall or market polygon. Each node can have as many tags as are relevant, including ones you mentioned like “website”. It is up to each renderer to decide how to handle visual clashes between closely spaced nodes or nodes on different levels, but all of the nodes are discoverable by searching, which seems to be your concern.
Can you describe how your suggestion differs from this?
Hey thanks for your reply, and yes I’ll try to explain it more clear.
On a market, the stalls are 3 meters wide, and there’s a double row, also there might be 2 different markets during the week. The same goes for shops in multi-level malls/metro-stations, especially in the meditaranian/asian areas where everything is build very small.
When -supposedly- adding all seller nodes on these places, that would mean there would be several nodes on a few meter distance. Which makes it all overlapping, even on max-zoom.
As a rough idea for a solution, I thought -for the visible map- to add an icon showing there’s a ‘cluster of shops’ and then -for the data part- tag all the shops inside the market/mall tag, just like a ‘name’ tag, but then ‘sellers’ tags, including the usual shop information/tags, like normal.
This would make it possible to add more data then is viewable on the map, and when querying the data for use on other maps it can show all shops, including based on opening-days.
I hope this makes it a bit more clear. And one last thing, I’m not fully sure if this idea is still within the scope of OSM. Please let me know if it’s not, and I’ll close this suggestion.
I actually wouldn’t worry about the “maximum zoom” of data consumers, for a couple of reasons. One is that any UI that incorporates search (as many do) allows people to search and find things without having to hunt around manually on a visual representation. The other is that many maps (especially those based on vector tiles) aren’t as limited in what they show as older ones were.
As an example, this** is a turf maze in Yorkshire, in OSM here:
Here’s OSM’s Standard Style, at its maximum resolution of raster zoom 19:
Here’s one of the vector map styles on osm.org, zoomed in as far as it goes (4 levels further):
However, because the rendering of that is on the client, that maximum is an artificial one. Here’s a different vector map style, zoomed in a bit more, showing just the “entrance”:
** photo by Mike Fowkes. CC-by-SA 2.0.
This does present an interesting situation…
How would one map something that is present for a certain amount of time (but regularly, so it’s not ‘temporary’), but where other things take their place at other times?
Theoretically you can have a market that has all the same stalls on Mondays, different ones on Tuesdays, different ones again on Wednesdays, etc. You’d end up with potentially 7 different markers on the same spot.
Does OSM have an established way of handling something like this? We have one for space (levels in a multistorey building), but not for time…
You could just use opening hours? And only show open shops (or show open shops more prominently).
yes, with different opening hours
Sure.
So level=* is for nodes at the same locations but on different floors, and opening_hours=* is for nodes at the same locations but at different times.
if desirable it should be done on data consumer side
unless you mean mapping mall/marketplace? we have tags for that
maybe in a specific data consumer
note that some (say CoMaps) will show different objects depending on what you searched for
There’s a lot of different ways this thread is going. This is very much appreciated of course, but for clearity lets stick to the question.
I’m aware of that it is possible to add hundreds of nodes in a small area in OSM, and that (with vector) you can zoom in enough. It will still be cluttered though. So a ‘cluster’ icon should be on the OSM side, where most maps get their tiles based on.
The question is:
1 - is it officially allowed to map all temporarely sellers in a small place on OSM?
The suggestion is:
2 - Can there be a subtag ‘sellers’ created to be added to the main market/mall?
