I am pleasantly surprised with two Pacific Oceans for the price of one.
Alas, for
I get zero for the price of one.
Lots of blue, but no matter how far I zoom out… it’s almost like vandals have stolen the words “Pacific Ocean”, and won’t put them back on the map until a ransom is paid or something.
Well you also can’t find the words Planet Earth, so count your blessings while you have them.
I know. My parents were just concerned, is this the right map for me? Shouldn’t it have the name of oceans on it?
The discussion about rendering names of oceans/continents is quite old. The problem is that big objects like this do not realy have names. There is no name=* on this object, only a lot of name:lang=*.
In OSM the name=*-key should always contain the name of an object in local language. What language is the local language of the pacific ocean? No one lives there so there is no local language. Why should there be the words “Pacific Ocean” on the map and not “Pazifischer Ozean” or “اقیانوس آرام”?
There are other renderers out there. On the maptiler-website you can choose between different language-options. One of them is called “browser language”.
Someone wrote about the update frequency of seas, oceans, bays. Not even the all-canadian (still ,o) Hudson Bay shows no name in Carto S and that one got updated 1 month ago. Even when I checked a month or more ago on the Med, it showed, was looking for the Adriatic since the MP relation was removed and old node revived… no see see, Med gone too. The only big water I can find is the Caspian Sea, but that is classed in OSM as lake, although those who do not occupy themselves with navel staring would class it as a sea.
" The Caspian Sea is the world’s largest inland body of water, described as the world’s largest lake and usually referred to as a full-fledged sea."
Truly, good for the countries on the Caspian… the only ones who appear to get to see their sea on OSM. \ o /
This isn’t the first time you have complained about something not appearing on OSM Carto and it isn’t the first time that people have tried to point you to other maps that use OSM data that actually do show the information that you want. In this instance I’d suggest OSM Americana, which despite its name supports numerous languages.
Certainly like that Americana implementation, but missing a few like the Aegean **, Sea of Marmara and the Black Sea.
** Vaguely remember some broken relation in this area but dared not fix it absent docus for a sub zone, but like the other 2 noted might be another issue.
Reading the material you quoted I think I deserve a round of applause.
We see this is the first time in fact I have turned my investigative eyes upon the bodies of water there on OSM.ORG.
And was amazed at what I didn’t find.
At first I thought perhaps all the names of the gulfs of the world were removed due to one little controversy in the NE (not NW like my other comment today) part of Mexico.
But now it seems some combination of factors is to blame.
Anyway I think I need a second round of applause for suggesting that maps look better with the names of oceans on them, rather than off. And it would reflect better on the project (as represented by the OSM.ORG website) as a whole if everybody put their wits together and figured out a way (or just ask how Google managed to do it.)
And in fact when this controversy is all over, I’ll be proud to tell my parents that I improved (restored) the names for 70% of the world’s surface on OSM.ORG. Not bad.
The Aegean Sea is only in OSM as a monster relation, rather than a node. It validates OK in JOSM, but does rely on a project processing sea names from monster relations (which many will not have).
The Sea of Marmara is also only a relation; so is the Black Sea. Both of those validate OK in JOSM too.
The OSM Americana project uses the OpenMapTiles schema, which in turn usesOpenStreetMapData or Natural Earth. It’s a little unclear where ocean and sea (as opposed to lake) names come from, but my guess is ultimately OSM nodes, which might explain why they are “missing” from that map style.
It has my executive blessing, lol, to axe these relations and make them just nodes in a fairly central spot of those waters. The Adriatic had like 4300 members and was over v1000. Woodpeck was the executioner, and it shows.
The gulf of naples i fixed last month as well as an adjacent sub bay. In relations and absent from the Americana, so you’re right on the moneyme thinketh.
I think it helps if you realize that openstreetmap.org isn’t really an end-user product, but mostly a tool for mappers. It has numerous user experience quirks, the least of which is finding the pacific oceans. For example-the local-language renderer makes the map not usable for ANY user in some part of the map.
OpenStreetMap has always been a DB upon which end-user products are made.
Whether this is a good design choice, or whether OSM should go into the business of end user products, is one topic of its own.
Another topic is whether or not openstreetmap.org signals its purpose sufficiently. I think it often misleads end users into thinking it’s a polished end-user product, giving them negative impressions of OSM.
I feel personally attacked as one of the dozens of people worldwide who like maps but never bothered to memorize the names of the oceans! (I’m not even kidding)
As a result of this changeset, OSM Americana currently does not display a label for the Pacific Ocean in any of the numerous languages that it normally would. This is due to a suboptimal behavior in OpenMapTiles, but until that changes or a name=* tag is re-added, the Pacific Ocean will remain unlabeled on americanamap.org.
If website owners decide to switch to OSM then it will be the Carto map that they are going to display. I get really sick of all those astute remarks about Carto not being an end product. Please kid yourself instead of others who don’t own large servers. Not the whole earth is being subsidised. They can’t afford it.
I think I can safely say that that isn’t my experience - something like https://bustimes.org/map#8.38/53.199/-1.371 is much more common - a grey background map (in this case from Stadia) over which application-specific POIs are shown. When something looking like OSM Carto popped up at a Google blog recently it was unusual because it looked so out of place.
Edited to add:
(venturing offtopic from ocean labelling but)
I think it’s worth sharing some actual costs here. I currently have a server that handles both regeneration and hosting of raster and vector tiles for the UK and Ireland. That’s shared with lots of other things on one €25 per month server. In the case of vector maps, once the tiles have been created, you can basically host them on a potato - the vector tiles are <6GB (and are way more detailed than your average business website would want) and all the rendering is done client-side, meaning a really cheap server (€4 per month or so) can host it.
