Looking for Data for Road Names/Ψάχνετε για δεδομένα για Ονόματα

Cinderblock · 2020-02-21T19:35:19.000Z

Hello Greek OSM Community,

I am a GIS technician with Kaart and I wanted to reach out and ask for your help!

We are looking for datasets for road names and addresses for all of Greece that can be used to make changes in OSM both by our editors and by you.

In September and October of 2018 we travelled to Athens and Thessaloniki to capture ground imagery (which has been uploaded to Mapillary), and put names on roads as seen on signs and verify and correct one-ways. We are hoping to find the most recent datasets for road names to improve the road network and navigability in Greece.

We are aware of the resource Geodata and we are attempting to get permission for the use of this data for editing in OSM.

If you would like to learn more about our company go to kaart.com or check out our wiki page https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kaart.

You may also contact me for any questions you have: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Cinderblock

Thank you!

Γεια σας Ελληνική κοινότητα OSM,

Είμαι τεχνικός GIS με τον Kaart και ήθελα να φτάσω έξω και να ζητήσω τη βοήθειά σας!

Ψάχνουμε για σύνολα δεδομένων για ονόματα δρόμων και διευθύνσεις για όλη την Ελλάδα, τα οποία μπορούν να χρησιμοποιηθούν για την πραγματοποίηση αλλαγών στο OSM τόσο από τους εκδότες όσο και από εσάς.

Τον Σεπτέμβριο και τον Οκτώβριο του 2018 ταξίδεψαμε στην Αθήνα και τη Θεσσαλονίκη για να τραβήξουμε εικόνες στο έδαφος (που φορτώσαμε στο Mapillary) και να βάλουμε ονόματα στους δρόμους όπως φαίνεται στα σημεία και να επαληθεύουμε και να διορθώνουμε μονόδρομα. Ελπίζουμε να βρούμε τα πιο πρόσφατα σύνολα δεδομένων για τα οδικά ονόματα για να βελτιώσουμε το οδικό δίκτυο και την πλοήγηση στην Ελλάδα.

Γνωρίζουμε τον πόρο Geodata και προσπαθούμε να λάβουμε άδεια για τη χρήση αυτών των δεδομένων για επεξεργασία σε OSM.

Εάν θέλετε να μάθετε περισσότερα για την εταιρεία μας, πηγαίνετε στο kaart.com ή δείτε τη σελίδα wiki https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kaart.

Μπορείτε επίσης να επικοινωνήσετε μαζί μου για οποιεσδήποτε ερωτήσεις έχετε: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Cinderblock

Σας ευχαριστώ!

nikospag · 2020-02-22T22:38:04.000Z

Cinderblock:

We are looking for datasets for road names and addresses for all of Greece that can be used to make changes in OSM both by our editors and by you.

There is no such thing, not even in Geodata resource. Official road network names are in Government Gazette documents published in Greek language.
All these documents are available at our wiki pages.
Most of these documents are old (1965, 2008 etc)
On top of that, there are overlapping informations in these documents that add more confusion to the already complicated naming and numbering system in Greece.

So i suggest to not mess with Greek road network system, unless you have a good knowledge of Greek language, so you can read Government Gazette documents.

Thank you.

EDIT: if you want to help, you can update Attica (OASA) bus stops ref and route_ref keys. You can download datasets from here: OASA_bus_stops (xlsx, kml, csv) for import to QGIS or ArcGIS. (field stop_id is the bus stop OSM ref key).
Also available here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/El:Greece/Public_transport/OASA_bus_stops (about 7900 bus stops)
Do not change coordinates, because bus stops coordinates in OSM are more accurate.

mappas · 2020-02-25T06:30:52.000Z

nikospag:

Cinderblock:

We are looking for datasets for road names and addresses for all of Greece that can be used to make changes in OSM both by our editors and by you.

There is no such thing, not even in Geodata resource. Official road network names are in Government Gazette documents published in Greek language.

Actually there is at least one dataset at geodata.gov.gr with road names, for the city of Athens. It could be useful for cross-checking names captured in street imagery.

Cinderblock:

We are aware of the resource Geodata and we are attempting to get permission for the use of this data for editing in OSM.

That would be super helpful. Have you requested a permission for Kaart only, or for every osm editor?

nikospag:

EDIT: if you want to help, you can update Attica (OASA) bus stops ref and route_ref keys. You can download datasets from here: OASA_bus_stops (xlsx, kml, csv) for import to QGIS or ArcGIS. (field stop_id is the bus stop OSM ref key).
Also available here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/El:Greece/Public_transport/OASA_bus_stops (about 7900 bus stops)
Do not change coordinates, because bus stops coordinates in OSM are more accurate.

Although off-topic, I want to ask: do we have a permission to use the api for data extraction?

nikospag · 2020-02-25T12:32:25.000Z

mappas:

nikospag:

Cinderblock:

We are looking for datasets for road names and addresses for all of Greece that can be used to make changes in OSM both by our editors and by you.

There is no such thing, not even in Geodata resource. Official road network names are in Government Gazette documents published in Greek language.

Actually there is at least one dataset at geodata.gov.gr with road names, for the city of Athens. It could be useful for cross-checking names captured in street imagery.

I know about that.
They asked for datasets for all of Greece, and i’m sure there are no datasets that (even combined) can cover the whole Greece.

As far as i know, Geodata data are free to use and publish by everyone. The is no need of permission. http://geodata.gov.gr/content/about/

The same goes (except for commercial pusposes) for Oasa api. Thats why there is no api key.

mappas · 2020-02-25T13:04:34.000Z

nikospag:

As far as i know, Geodata data are free to use and publish by everyone. The is no need of licence. http://geodata.gov.gr/content/about/

This is the dataset I had in mind:
https://geodata.gov.gr/el/dataset/od1ko-diktuo-ttep1oxns-anuou-a0nvaiwv
It is licensed under Creative Commons - Attribution, which is not compatible with ODbL of osm.

nikospag:

The same goes (except for commercial pusposes) for Oasa api. Thats why there is no api key.

The case of oasa is even worse, the terms mention personal use only, we cannot import these data in osm without a special permission/lisence.

nikospag · 2020-02-25T23:06:18.000Z

I don’t want to do this conversation here, but i can tell this. Its not that simple. (I am talking about Geodata data).
This “License issue” its not that simple as just using the phrase “incompatible attribution requirements and other terms”, and say that it is not permitted for use in OSM.
Every country’s courts have different definitions of CC terms of license usage, and these definitions primarily depend on the context of that usage.
Of course i can understand the OSM LWG precautions (mostly about attributions), because the are trying to close any legal “back doors”, but i think they go a bit extreme.
Anyway, i don’t think there will be any court that will convict OSM because of Geodata usage in its context. (free context is important)
There are more, but as i said, i will not continue this conversation here.

EDIT: As for oasa. things go even deeper, and there are “fair use” and “substantial republish/reproduction” terms of use, that are defined in courts.
For clarifying things, “personal use only” means free for “fair use” and prohibited “substantial republish/reproduction”. But final definitions of “fair” and “substantial” are given only in courts. (again context of data usage is important).

nikospag · 2020-02-26T23:43:48.000Z

And to add something that some members of our community may not know (irrelevant to the licenses issue), Geodata also uses Openstreetmap as a base layer map, eg. http://geodata.gov.gr/maps/?locale=en

Και να προσθέσω κάτι που ίσως κάποια μέλη της κοινότητα μας να μην γνωρίζουν (άσχετο με το θέμα των αδειών), το Geodata επίσης χρησιμοποιεί το Openstreetmap ως χάρτη υποβάθρου πχ http://geodata.gov.gr/maps/?locale=en

Cinderblock · 2020-03-05T19:15:57.000Z

Thank you everyone for your responses so far! All of your input is helpful for us.

Cinderblock:

We are aware of the resource Geodata and we are attempting to get permission for the use of this data for editing in OSM.

mappas:

That would be super helpful. Have you requested a permission for Kaart only, or for every osm editor?

We’ve requested for permission for every OSM editor, it’s important for data to be available for the whole community to use.

nikospag:

They asked for datasets for all of Greece, and i’m sure there are no datasets that (even combined) can cover the whole Greece.

That’s a miscommunication on my part, we don’t need a single dataset for the entirety of Greece, just as many as we can to cover as much as we can. You’re probably correct that there are no datasets combined to cover the whole country, but we’re hoping to get as much as we can.

nikospag:

I don’t want to do this conversation here, but i can tell this. Its not that simple. (I am talking about Geodata data).
This “License issue” its not that simple as just using the phrase “incompatible attribution requirements and other terms”, and say that it is not permitted for use in OSM.

We understand it is not that simple to get the licensing and permission to use data from a source like Geodata. However, if we can, it wouldn’t be the first time we were able to convince the right people to change licensing and gain permission for data to be used for OSM. That’s what we’re hoping for here as well.

nikospag:

On top of that, there are overlapping informations in these documents that add more confusion to the already complicated naming and numbering system in Greece.

So i suggest to not mess with Greek road network system, unless you have a good knowledge of Greek language, so you can read Government Gazette documents.

Our company tries very hard to be in contact with the local OSM community anywhere we edit so that we can gain a better understanding of the area and prevent adding incorrect data and disrupting a current, correct system. If we do get datasets that we can use to edit the map, we will be in further contact here on the forums to ask for your help in understanding the system before we make any assumptions that any acquired data is more accurate than what is already there. We will likely do very little to no changes to existing data, and only adding new data that is not already present on the map.