Let's talk about highway classification in OSM

[ZLima12 (John Leuenhagen)]

In my proposal, expressway=limited describes a road in the same way that the current expressway=yes does, while expressway=controlled describes a road as having the same physical characteristics that have typically been associated with highway=motorway. expressway=controlled differs from highway=motorway in that it does not imply any legal restrictions or importance. Additionally, highway=motorway would now by default imply expressway=controlled, which is usually correct. However, in the countries where there are roads that should be highway=motorway because of legal classification despite lacking some access control, expressway=limited may be used alongside highway=motorway to convey the physical situation.

[ZLima12 (John Leuenhagen)]

@pavvv

If you made a proposal, you should probably also create a thread for it. Although related, this one is about something else. Expressway tagging is an interesting topic and could definitely be improved upon but I don’t know it should be done the way it’s done in your proposal.

I can do that. I am mentioning it here because there is some discussion of the physical construction of a road versus its importance classification. If you think my proposal has issues, I would appreciate hearing your concerns so I can improve it.

[ZLima12 (John Leuenhagen)]

I have created a thread for the proposal, for those who are interested.

[Baloo_Uriza]

@Minh_Nguyen

One of the reasons you keep seeing screenshots of OSM Americana come up in classification discussions is that the project’s goal is to serve as a reference implementation. Unlike many projects developed by the OSM community, it takes a user-centric viewpoint rather than a technology-centric viewpoint. The map demonstrates how developers and designers can build something realistic and usable on top of OSM and simultaneously highlights the obstacles that remain for the mapping community. It’s just one point of view but a fairly significant one.

I really hope Americana is featured on the OSM frontpage, too.

[Vinzenz_Mai]

@pavvv

That’s an interesting argument. I think what we should do is figure out what typical paper maps depend on with their colouring and get inspired by that.

Well the paper maps I do know and I do remember treat trunks and motorways in just the same way as we do in Germany and our neighbours in France

Because of that I’m very very satisfied with the way we do that in OSM. I won’t have it changed.

[pavvv]

@Vinzenz_Mai

treat trunks

You don’t know what a trunk [road] is, do you?

@Vinzenz_Mai

Because of that I’m very very satisfied with the way we do that in OSM. I won’t have it changed.

@Adam_Franco this is what I’m talking about. It’s going to be very difficult to change the meaning of a tag which is already so solidly encoded in the minds of mappers.

[Minh_Nguyen (Minh Nguyễn)]

@Vinzenz_Mai

Well the paper maps I do know and I do remember treat trunks and motorways in just the same way as we do in Germany and our neighbours in France

The best part is when a map publisher attempts to communicate a foreign land to their domestic audience, usually in partnership with an overseas publisher. California for Swiss travelers:

France and Benelux for American travelers:

Have fun everyone!

[ZLima12 (John Leuenhagen)]

I do believe that we should completely decouple any physical characteristics from highway=trunk, but it seems like it will have to be done on a regional basis, at least for the time being. As more regions adopt this meaning, it will become more compelling for other regions to follow suit.

[Kovoschiz]

high_speed_road= / highspeed= can have a different criteria in urban areas, and a loose speed limit doesn’t mean it’s designed and attainable (cf maxspeed:practical= etc ). In a sense, it’s similar to the argument for expressway= , in how maxspeed= alone doesn’t reliably convey this. The urban vs rural difference is something I asked about expressway= too.

[pavvv]

@Kovoschiz

The urban vs rural difference is something I asked about expressway= too.

In Poland we applied the same criteria for both but since the maxspeed threshold was to be over 50 km/h, it included both urban and rural roads of very good quality.

[Kovoschiz]

In East Asia, there are many widely-spaced at-grade or grade-separated roads at 50km/h, to even 40km/h. That’s one reason for my question.

[pavvv]

That’s why I think there should be consensus among each country what they consider to be an expressway. Initially it should be what they use for highway=trunk right now, if it’s defined based on parameters. If not, and there isn’t even something such as an ‘expressway’ defined administratively, they should discuss about what they consider something a ‘semi-motorway’ but perhaps there isn’t even anything like that and they don’t have to use this tag.

[aktiivimallikansalainen]

@Adam_Franco

A second problem is that major cities become a mess of roads at national/continental scale. There is no way to suppress the high-quality roads that are lower network importance, connecting suburbs and exurbs with city centers.

I would want to see this problem solved for cycleways as well.

[pavvv]

@aktiivimallikansalainen

I would want to see this problem solved for cycleways as well.

The solution is importance=national/regional/urban/suburban.