Hey guys!
The wiki says that a social_facility=outreach is “a non-residential facility that provides social welfare services such as advocacy, counseling, job placement, veterans services, housing placement, wellness programs, leisure activities”
What would be the correct term/tag for a residential social facility that provides these services?
I don’t know … advocacy and counseling don’t sound like shelter or group home to me 
they don’t sound like residential to me, if there is a residential facility and also counseling, I’d add these as 2 different things
What you mean by residential counselling?
I think you’re misunderstanding what I mean.
Residential means “not moving, stationary, fixed” contrary to outreach, which is the exact opposite:
I’m looking for a way to tag the work that outreach does, but immobile. A social facility that provides counselling, etc. Would it be okay to still tag this as outreach, even though it’s immobile?
I looked around Europe, and most social_facility=outreach I checked seem to be rather stationary than mobile
Residential normally means that people live at the location, or at least stay there overnight.
It might mean “outreach into a community” - so rather than people from a large housing estate out of town having to get into the centre of town to go to a big office, the people running the big office might open a facility in the middle of the housing estate.
We may be understanding word “residential” differently.
I understood it here as patients/subjects/counseled living at given location.
It seems that you understood it as events/session happening at specific location.
No, not as an event, but rather as a mobile “unit” of people operating from a specific location, handing out flyers at events to spread word, and visiting people at their homes / on the street. E.g. programs for homeless, immobile, or sick people mainly, or those to afraid to make contact on their own: “A key component of outreach is that the group providing it is not stationary, but mobile”. These outreach programs rarely exist over here. In fact, the only exception I know is for homeless and drug addicts.
Yes, that’s a so-called satellite outreach. Here’s the definition:
But that is not what I had in mind. This is not a non-profit organization residing in a small room in someone’s shop. I’m mainly interested in a social facility that has their own premises, and provides counselling to everyone, regardless where they come from. But they don’t come to you, you have to go to them. Like a doctor, just for social problems, not health problems. The equivalent of healthcare=counselling for social counselling, and more.
If I’m being to narrow-minded, then the problem is maybe that “outreach” is a well-defined term that I know from my work back in the days when I was a social worker. And in OSM, it’s more or less used to tag “classic” mobile outreach, as well as residential, non-mobile “outreach”? If that’s the case, then I’ll just tag it like this, but it seems the wrong term to use. Then again, highway=steps exists…
It seems it is their office and I would mark it as office is it is signposted
I don’t want to tag offices of mobile units, I want to tag the premises of non-mobile (residential) units 
And since they are not administrative only, but offering a social service, it’s hardly an office.
I suspect most OSM mappers aren’t aware of that well-defined meaning. There is nothing in the wiki that hints at it. Indeed the description even seems to contradict it, as it refers to a facility where services are provided. It sounds like your concept of outreach would not have a facility by definition, other than perhaps an office.
I don’t want to labour the point, but I think you mean non mobile, non residential. E.g. I don’t think you are talking about premises that provide accommodation for homeless people on site. So, not residential.
Yes and no. My understanding is that the actual social_facility=outreach is either a co-space in a high-street shop, a well-known location where these people are often around (much like mobile soup kitchens, which have fixed locations where they pop up, but nothing is left on the ground when they are gone), or a hub from where they meet regularly, and keep the things they need for their day-to-day work. I would definitely tag the offices of an organization providing outreach purely as office=*, because no social services are provided there.
I am not a native speaker, but residential, to me, means something with a fixed location, whereas non-residential means the opposite. Since our wiki states that outreach is “a non-residential facility […]” I’m assuming that it refers to what we commonly call “streetworking” in German.
I’m talking about premises that provide counselling. For families, for poor people, for overindebted people, or for pupils having problems at school that they don’t want to discuss with their parents, also for people who feel like they were sexually abused, but prefer to talk to a social worker rather than a doctor or police officer. Or if you simply need someone to talk to who knows how to help. A shoulder to cry on and support you. It’s a regular service the local municipality provides, and you can go there with or without appointment, but you have to go there in person. There can be anything from 1 to 10 social workers, and because the matters being discussed are usually delicate matters, they have their own premises, so you can’t eavesdrop.
How would you tag that?
I was a street worker for 2 years, and that is pretty much what we did, but mainly by “mingling” with the teenagers and dropping hints that we’re here for them, and how to reach us if they needed help (phone numbers can work miracles), or going to homeless people and letting them know how we could help them. I was part of such a mobile unit, and we started our day in an office that was stockpiling medical supplies like Sertralin, Citalopram, Escitalopram to help people who were on drug withdrawal (most of us had a emergency medical technician background, so we knew how to use these things). We discussed who’s going where, if there seem to be common problems among the homeless or young people, and who to keep an eye on. And that’s what I think is meant with social_facility=outreach. The non-administrative office of street workers like this, or the places they regularly hang out at. But I might be wrong, because some terms mean different things in German, so I might be confused.
As a native speaker, residential means there is some form of overnight accommodation, and non residential means there isn’t. So various kinds of refuge where people in specific circumstances can stay, or longer term accommodation for certain groups, would be residential. A premises only offering counselling or advice definitely isn’t. I’m fairly sure that is the sense used in that wiki page.
I don’t think I have mapped such a facility, but honestly I’d probably have relied on the wiki as I’ve really nothing else to go on - depending on whether I could glean anything from similar examples already mapped in my country.
If I didn’t think there was a good match, I might ignore the 2nd level tag and rely on the primary tag plus “:for” tagging. But the latter also seems problematic for your example as it appears the counselling is quite generic. A lot of social facilities I am aware of have more speciic target groups.
In which case, outreach might just be the thing. People don’t sleep or live there. I need to change the German translation of the wiki then, because translating it back into English, it reads:
The English term “outreach” corresponds to “outreach social work,” where individuals are approached at their current location without adhering to any formalities – no appointment or visit to a specific counseling center is necessary. In German, the term “Streetworker” has become established (especially in connection with homelessness), but outreach social work also takes place with other groups of people, such as children and adolescents.
which is clearly not what the English wiki says. Thank you for clarifying, and sorry for my confusion. Things make a lot more sense now 
Maybe changing also English version may make it less confusing?
The problem for me was that the wiki links to the wikipedia page for outreach, and their definition of outreach is clearly more or less street working. Or generally speaking: identifying and addressing the needs of individuals or groups who may not actively seek help or are unaware of the services available to them, and either directly helping them at their homes, on the street, or nudging (or even driving) them to the corresponding office.
As people said before, tagging this would be hard, because the only “fixed” thing to tag would be the premises where they provide their services. But whether they also provide “outreach” would be completely irrelevant for the tagging, except maybe as a subtag like social_facility=counselling + outreach=yes. But that train has long departed 
Oh, misrepresentating Wikipedia as defining OSM tags is sadly common.
On which page it happened this time?