@alpacaMaps has been deleting camera nodes with this comment
The country that these nodes are placed in does not currently operate any Flock ALPR.
DeFlock is an excellent resource for identifying ALPRs.
- alpacaMaps
While I do agree that having “Flock Safety” as the manufacturer in countries where they don’t operate is wrong, that does not stop from an (ALPR) camera being at those locations. Wouldn’t it have been better to leave the cameras in place and only remove the manufacturer information?
I am going to add have added a link to this post on changeset 188633085
But you could also argue that a Flock camera in a country where those are not operating is likely a completely wrong edit in the first place (maybe a misclick or similar) and there is likely no ALPR camera there in reality. Maybe that’s what @alpacaMaps thought?
I checked a (very) few nodes for how they were entered initially. I checked 4, and they were done by 4 different mappers, all using the same editor (DeFlock 2.11.0). Unfortunately their changesets had no source tagged (I was hoping for “survey”).
Assuming (bad I know ) they are using the app version on site, they must at least have seen something that they identified as a camera. If so I believe the information about the camera is as valid as all other cameras recorded.
But I must admit I have never seen/used the app it is quite possible it can only add ALPR cameras in which case the ALPR part could be wrong.
EDIT:
This page at the Flock website at least gives me the impression other camera types are possible.
I just clicked on a random node from one of the seven changesets where the bbox is crossing over my area and looked at version 1, and considering this “traffic camera” is within a house and seems to be pointing in all directions, it makes me question the original additions more.
The first one I saw was close enough to check and there was a camera there. It was a normal CCTV dome camera on the wall outside a convenience store entrance, in a pedestrian area, so I got rid of all the incorrect tags rather than deleting the node.
If a “Flock” node isn’t convenient to check quickly, I’m fine with deletion.
not in all cases, I did similar edit where Automatic License Plate Recognition cameras where mapped in places where it was utter nonsense
if manufacturer was clearly wrong, if ALPR claim was wrong and camera location was suspect and account was brand new, then I reverted it as a test edit
I believe most of the Flock ALPR nodes added in other countries via the DeFlock app are inaccurate, misplaced, or malicious in intent, and thus removed them. There are absolutely cases where tag removal seemed more prudent (when the DeFlock app was not the editor) and those changesets have stood with the Brand/Manufacturer removed. (See Changeset: 188633142 | OpenStreetMap)
Additionally, as I had never thought about opening a forum post here to discuss, I had taken feedback from others when working on tag removals in the past and it was suggested that if the node was submitted via DeFlock, is a Flock node by brand tag, and is in a country without Flock that deletion would be better. (See Changeset: 188016543 | OpenStreetMap )
Flock cameras and nodes showing up near users in foreign and domestic cities has caused a significant outcry (See DeFlock app issues ), and so with that reason in mind I believe it to be more beneficial to remove the Flock nodes that are likely misplaced in hopes that if it is a true ANPR/ALPR the user will replace it with the correct profile. For the time between now and then OSM is cleaner and then municipalities don’t field angry inquiries from citizens about “all that surveillance going on”
These are just my two cents. If there is a clear line to be drawn where removal is warranted vs tag removal, and I can apply a new philosophy, I will be happy to do so.
I hope my explanation of previously used logic is helpful, but if not I’m likewise happy to try and clarify further.
I’m noticing from that quite a few of these are coming from people who seem to be fairly new users with very few changesets. I’m not sure if that’s a feature of Deflock but it’s a bit suspect to me and I’d be more inclined to just remove the whole node.
) they are using the app version on site, they must at least have seen something that they identified as a camera. If so I believe the information about the camera is as valid as all other cameras recorded.