Is craft=cabinet_maker really wood-specific?

[Mateusz_Konieczny]

Is there reason to expect that they will not use plywood or other non-wood materials?

Tag:craft=cabinet_maker - OpenStreetMap Wiki defines it as being wood specific, which strikes me as dubiously over-specific.

Some translations go even further.

craft=cabinet_maker seems to not imply or require that based on tag value, it is not craft=solid_wood_cabinet_maker

[Fizzie-DWG (Graeme Fitzpatrick)]

@Mateusz_Konieczny

Is there reason to expect that they will not use plywood or other non-wood materials?

Plywood is still wood!

I don’t think there’s any requirement to say a cabinet maker has to only use “solid”, “real”, wood?

[tordans (Tobias Jordans)]

Reading the German wiki page this tag is meant to be something other than a regular Joiner

Translation from https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:craft%3Dcabinet_maker

“The traditional workshop of a cabinetmaker or ébéniste specializing in furniture, where high-quality pieces are handcrafted from valuable exotic woods.”

I image referencing wood is just a way to distinguish it from the joiner.

[Mateusz_Konieczny]

@Fizzie-DWG

Plywood is still wood!

I don’t think there’s any requirement to say a cabinet maker has to only use “solid”, “real”, wood?

What about laminated particle board? Many custom-made cabinets, at least in Poland, are made out of it.

[Mateusz_Konieczny]

@tordans

Translation from https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:craft%3Dcabinet_maker

“The traditional workshop of a cabinetmaker or ébéniste specializing in furniture, where high-quality pieces are handcrafted from valuable exotic woods.”

even if that was intended, the chosen tag name was hopeless for that

though maybe this tag should be for now ignored altogether as broken? Or maybe German page should be simply ignored?

[Woazboat]

‘Cabinet maker’ is a common job description that has existed for a long time, it’s not an arbitrary tag value that was invented for OSM. A cabinet maker is someone who makes cabinets. In 99% of cases those are going to be made from wood (which includes plywood, fibreboard, particle board, etc… and not just solid wood). It being made from wood is not strictly required, it’s just de-facto going to be the case. I’d also consider someone who makes cabinets from sheet metal a cabinet maker.

In the pure technical meaning of the word when you only consider the type of end product, IKEA would also be a cabinet maker (among other things). Nowadays the term is usually used to refer to smaller companies (potentially just a single person) making more high quality (often custom) furniture rather than industrial scale off the shelf products. I’m fairly confident that that’s also how the tag is intended to be used. I wouldn’t actually tag IKEA as a craft=cabinet_maker.

I don’t really see a problem with the tag. Could you elaborate why you think it’s broken?

It’s rather pointless to reference a one-sentence stub OSM wiki page as the absolute definition of a tag when it’s fairly clear what it’s supposed to encompass.

[urk (Uwe)]

I am certainly no joiner, neither in terms of training nor skill, but it seems to me there is a wide scope of “joiner” products: furniture (among that cabines, coffins (the last furniture), doors, windows, wall and ceiling coverings, generally structures made from wood or similar materials.

My impression is that cabint_maker is rather a subtag: joiner:speciality=cabinet_maker (used like healthcare:speciality=…). Specialized products as mentioned above and certainly many other can be defined.

[Mateusz_Konieczny]

@Woazboat

In 99% of cases those are going to be made from wood (which includes plywood, fibreboard, particle board, etc… and not just solid wood)

Hmm, I am surprised at particle board furniture being considered as a “wood furniture”

well, craft=cabinet_maker - OpenStreetMap Wiki claimed that definition is (autotranslations back to English)

A service involving the production of furniture from solid wood.

A person who makes fine wooden furniture.

A person who makes fine wooden furniture

Workshop of a cabinetmaker / artistic joiner

Workplace or office of a furniture manufacturer.

Cabinetmaker

A craftsman who produces fine wooden furniture.

Chest of Drawers Craftsman. A person who makes wooden furniture.

A person who makes fine wooden furniture.

Workplace or office of a furniture manufacturer.

Not sure how much of that is autotranslate being bad, how much is data items being filled with garbage and how much of that is wikifiddling.

[InsertUser]

@Woazboat

In the pure technical meaning of the word when you only consider the type of end product, IKEA would also be a cabinet maker (among other things). Nowadays the term is usually used to refer to smaller companies (potentially just a single person) making more high quality (often custom) furniture rather than industrial scale off the shelf products. I’m fairly confident that that’s also how the tag is intended to be used. I wouldn’t actually tag IKEA as a craft=cabinet_maker.

I would expect IKEA cabinets to be mass produced using (mostly) automated machinery an not really require much skill from the individual worker on the line. On that basis they’re probably less craft=cabinet_maker and more man_made=works + product=furniture at the main production sites (if known).

Tagging any craft on a site that’s just a store seems fundamentally wrong to me unless they actually make custom pieces or do repair work there.

[Woazboat]

I meant IKEA as a company and not just a store itself, but we’re saying the same thing anyway. IKEA (the company) may be a cabinet maker of sorts, but it’s not a OSM craft=cabinet_maker. man_made=works + product=furniture sounds about right for their production facilities.