Images being removed from wiki pages

General talk
46

See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=File:Anfahrpunkt_HP_108.jpg&action=edit&redlink=1 and Revision history of "emergency=access_point" (Q6333) - OpenStreetMap Wiki

  1. I replaced image across OSM Wiki (have not edited data item as at that point this usage info was completely hidden)

  2. I requested its deletion as unused

  3. Tigerfell deleted it as unused (also had no chance to spot as data items are broken in that part and fail to report its file usage)

  4. I removed Difference between revisions of "emergency=access_point (Q6333)" - OpenStreetMap Wiki as invalid not working image link (ideally I would check that file existed before and replace it)

  5. later image was readded

This should not be happening anymore as I am now aware about this one more way how data items are not working, and listing of files used by data items was setup as workaround for that problem (as noone has any idea how to actually fix it). So in future I will replace also files in data items (ugh) and moderators will be able to notice usage in data items before deleting them.

BTW, help with migrating/fixing/removing broken image links (listed at Category:Pages with broken file links - OpenStreetMap Wiki ) also would be welcome. Wiki:Files used by data items/ pages can be ignored until bot will regenerate them.

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Because someone else put a replacement in.

48

Because someone else put in a replacement afterwards.

50

That can easily happen :frowning:

In meantime: can you maybe take a good image of clothes dryers? See File:Clothes dryer Pulley.jpg - OpenStreetMap Wiki File:Clothes dryer Rack.jpg - OpenStreetMap Wiki

And/or of a dry stone wall? See https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Dry_stone_wall.png

Or find one available on a free license?

There is additional complexity: what kinds of images should we allow?

Is it ok to have images on “fair use”? Problem here is that requirements may depend on location and may be more strict in UK.

Do we want to allow “noncommercial use only” images? Who exactly can use them? Ideally they would be replaced by images on more permissive license (can I use them to develop OSM editor partially funded by an external grant?)

Can we keep unused screenshots as “educational use”?

Note that you cannot just redraw them: that would be a derivative work ( Commons:Derivative works - Wikimedia Commons )

You need to draw a new one, or use one of many existing ones. These ones were used solely on ancient page listing progress of mapping of some location, so I just removed overly elaborate progress table that was not maintained for years.

51

dry stone walls:

clothes dryer

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Zürich_(Schweiz)_--2011–_1395.jpg

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52

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Z%C3%BCrich_(Schweiz)_--_2011_--_1395.jpg is unmangled link (within ` ` characters)

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Thanks so much! Added info to file pages (so images will be soon switched, though maybe someone will find even better replacements)

If anyone would be interested in helping then there are some new ones where I failed to find replacements:

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Likely better to start a separate topic on that as I guess there will be many more requests.

I did add possible replacements to File:Entrance.png and File:Camp site backcountry.jpg

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Are you sure that it is separate enough to need a new topic?

Thanks!

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I started a new thread at Finding new images for OSM Wiki - help welcomed! - #19 by Mateusz_Konieczny

Currently looking for a specific image for:

permanent turnstile in a field File:Barrier drehkreuz.JPG - OpenStreetMap Wiki for Tag:barrier=turnstile - OpenStreetMap Wiki (or maybe indoor one also would be fine?)

Fast food in India, preferably McDonald to replace File:Fast food India.jpg - OpenStreetMap Wiki

AED in vending machine - to replace File:AED Japan Vending.jpg - OpenStreetMap Wiki (there is one candidate, but not great)

Place clearly allowing camping but has no infrastructure whatsoever, to replace File:Camp site backcountry.jpg - OpenStreetMap Wiki (if nothing can be found then one of images listed there can be used, maybe File:Refuge Cove, Wilsons Promontory National Park 12.jpg - OpenStreetMap Wiki - but it will be barely visible as a miniature).

In all cases - you can also take photo and upload it to Wikimedia Commons! (they have a better upload process than OSM Wiki, mostly because their community is much much bigger and centers around file uploads)

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Is there an answer to this yet? I noticed people replacing nc licensed images with inferior ones on tag documentation pages

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If situation is not clear and it is unknown whether we can use it, then I would not use them.

Personally, I consider it so unclear that I am not using them even for personal projects (unless fair use or similar applies anyway).

59

Are you selling the editor?

To give an example, a lot of academic research is grant-funded. That doesn’t make it a commercial activity.

Personally don’t see why NC images shouldn’t be fine on the wiki. If someone wants to print the Wiki and sell it for a profit, or sell an editor for profit, or put ads in the editor, then it’s up to them to find out if they can use a given image or to find a new one.

60

No, but I was occasionally selling my time (I got occasional grants to develop it).

being paid to work on XYZ is something I would consider as commercial activity

also when XYZ is say scientific research or improving OSM software

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The issue is that the wiki as a whole is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike license, which permits commercial reuse. Any image under a less permissive license, whether Creative Commons NonCommercial or NonDerivative, is effectively included under fair use just like an all-rights-reserved image.

Incidentally, the CC NC definition is intentionally vague and the subject of some controversy between authors and adaptors.

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‘Non-commercial’ depends extremely on the concrete jurisdiction. Not recommended.

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63

Fair enough, I hadn’t considered that.

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64

actually the wiki is available under cc-by-sa if not stated differently, so nc-images are included with their regular terms and do not rely on fair use (depending on the interpretation of “commercial” in the jurisdiction).

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65

Was there some legal consultation on this?

the OSMF as owner of the wiki was a commercial entity under UK law the last time I checked. Publishing images in they wiki might be defined as commercial use, as the business purpose of OSMF is to grow the database. It receives significant amounts of funding.

I would feel better if we have images licensed under an open license like the rest of the pages.

Is there a list of images being removed? How hard is it to get better images from the community under a more suitable license or asking the original photographer to change the license?

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I am trying to do it with images at Finding new images for OSM Wiki - help welcomed! - #43 by Mateusz_Konieczny (link to last post)

no (though CC-BY images definitely require attribution and we cannot just use random images pulled from internet at OSM Wiki, unless we are allowed in one way or another - and yes, we have serious problem with both)

CC-BY-NC is more of a gray area

maybe? that would require impressive lawyerese to go with that interpretation, but I have seen less silly interpretations being uphold by courts (or treated seriously by lawyers, to say nothing about what lawyers claimed to treat seriously because it benefitted their client)

but I would say that this specifically is not a problem, I would still go for replacing them for “I would feel better if we have images licensed under an open license like the rest of the pages.” reasons.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Special:UncategorizedFiles&limit=3000&offset=6000 has images without any category (so also without license template) - many of them just need to be marked properly

Category:Media without a license - OpenStreetMap Wiki has files marked as missing template, many are rescuable or waiting for reply from uploaders

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Mateusz_Konieczny/cleanup lists cases where uploaders were notified long time ago and file still has templates that action is awaited (some classes of files like screenshots are skipped here)

Category:Labelled for deletion - OpenStreetMap Wiki has files labelled for deletion right now

Category:Deletion Proposed - OpenStreetMap Wiki - deletion proposed

Category:Attribution not provided in CC license template which requires attribution - OpenStreetMap Wiki - attribution missing or not specified by using template

(see also User:Mateusz Konieczny/notify uploaders - OpenStreetMap Wiki )

Recent changes - OpenStreetMap Wiki for latest edits at OSM Wiki (you cannot show just ones removing images)

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