Bonjour, dans le cadre d’un projet de recensement des activités économiques sur le territoire wallon, à l’instar de ce qui existe en France avec le n° SIREN lien Wiki osm , je trouve utile d’ajouter en attribut le n° d’établissement pour chaque entreprise lien définition UE. Cela permet d’avoir un identifiant pour relier l’entreprise à d’autres bases de données. Qu’en pensez vous ? Est il possible de créer un nouvel attribut dans OSM (comme le n° SIRET) ? Merci
1 Like
Sure, it makes sense to add that info.
I would try and make sure the tag makes it very clear that it is the establishment unit, not the company registration number. Otherwise you’ll get a mix of the two.
I would suggest we create a tag for both, so people can choose whichever makes most sense for the case at hand.
There’s also the question of the language to be used for the tag: is it NL, FR, NL_FR, or maybe EN? So KBO , BCE , KBO_BCE or CBE? The advantage of English is that you can have a shorter key. The disadvantage is that most people know the concept as either KBO or BCE (rarely both 
).
And should it be in it all caps or lowercase?
Currently we have some records with all of the below (fortunately small numbers):
- ref:cbe
- ref:CBE
- operator:ref:CBE
- operator:kbo_bce
- ref:FR:BCE (where the FR does not stand for France as I would expect it to, but for French language notation…)
It should be noted that any one object in OSM could have several CBE numbers, and any CBE number could have several OSM objects to represent it.
Thank you Joost,
As other tags, I think that only English should be choosen. > as you propose Crossroads Bank for Enterprises >> cbe & Establishment Unit Number >> eun ou eunumber)
In danemark, we can find the same case Key:ref:DK:cvr - OpenStreetMap Wiki
We could use ref: BE:cbe: 10 digits &
ref: BE:cbe:eunumber (or eun) ?
Encore merci,
I like it. How about ref:BE:cbe:est_number and ref:BE:cbe:ent_number for establishment and enterprise respectively?
The key must describe the term known in the country (e.g. in France it is fantoir and not the English translation of fantoir), so key should be in the national language.
KBO-BCE-ZDU is a shortname → caps.
vatin is for the entreprise, not for the “unité d’établissement”
it’s a ref
so my preference is ref:KBO_BCE_ZDU
We could have fun adding a country prefix, in case there are two KBO_BCE_ZDU codes in Belgium, but I don’t think so :)
We progress -) ref:KBO-BCE-ZDU: is the ID of the company (numéro de BCO ou KBO nummer - 10 figures ) ?
So, for the establshment (localisation), it’s another ref. do you add 3 acronyms for 3 language : VE (vl) for vestigingseenheidsnummer; UE (fr) for unité d’établissement ; NE (german) for Niederlassungseinheitsnummer
ref:KBO-BCE-ZDU:VE_UE_NE: (see the example in danmark) ?
Are you ok with these different tags ?
Thanks,
Frédéric
Is there any other case where we include German in the ref? This seems like overkill to be honest.
For the subtag I would still use the English term, just to keep it compact and human readable.
Mixing dashes and underscores, in combination with these relatively long tags, feels like it could introduce a lot of tagging errors. I’m a proponent of shorter, unified tags.
1 Like
One reference should be indeed simplier. As most of the tags, english is used. So, CBE (crossroads bank for entreprises) and EU (establishment unit) have my favour.
Ref: CBE:
Ref: CBE:EU:
ps: As banchmark, I found that case in zwitserland, they use only one acronym UID : valid in english and .. also german the 1st official language -)
Why not something like ref:BE:enterprise and ref:BE:establishment? (Or enterprise_number and enterprise_establishment_number). That’s what they are called anyway, nobody says “number in the CBE”.
That would be more transparent and avoid unrecognizable acronyms (CBE and EU – the latter being especially confusing) or two acronyms in three languages (ref:KBO-BCE-ZDU:VE_UE_NE? 
).
1 Like
By a lack of better ideas, I started using operator:ref:CH:UID (for companies in Switzerland) ref:CH-GE:REG (for establishments in the canton of Geneva).
Neither name is ideal, but “UID” is the official name for that registry (in CH) and “REG” the abbreviation used by the other (in CH-GE).
I love it!
Thank you for your suggestions and advices. As we create a new tag, how does it happen ? Need a special validation ? we have to wait for a raisonnable delay to share advices/ proposals/… of I can launch the new tag ? in that case a page wiki is necessary or a must ? thanks
The problem is that it doesn’t say who issues this number.
So there must be more than one company register.
Not necessarily.
Both are issued by the same organisation, so I don’t see the advantage of having two different keys. The format of the key allows you to deduce the level of detail if anyone is interested.
Afaik, there’s only one company register in Belgium issuing IDs? At any rate, it’s the default one. If you ask an entrepreneur “what’s your enterprise number”, they’re not going to ask for clarification. Sure, there are specialized numbers such as for banks, insurance brokers, doctors, lawyers, architects… But none of those are referred to as an “enterprise number”.
So pragmatically, I don’t think this is really an issue.
The ECB (federal state) assigns each entity and establishment unit a unique identification number (called “enterprise number” and “establishment unit number”)
"Adding the tag “establishment unit number” links it to the official database. This facilitates automatic updates of information (name, address), improves the reliability of map data, and allows for the unique identification of an establishment, preventing duplicates. The “enterprise number” (better known by the people) identifies legal entities (companies, local authorities, etc.) but is not a geographical identifier. It can’t be used alone
Both are issued by the same organisation, so I don’t see the advantage of having two different keys
They’re different concepts, so shouldn’t technically be treated as the same.
That they’re issued by the same org doesn’t seem like a good argument to me? By that logic we might as well put name=*, ref=* and highway=* in the same key if they’re issued by the same government.
The “enterprise number” (better known by the people) identifies legal entities (companies, local authorities, etc.) but is not a geographical identifier. It can’t be used alone
Technically there’s no problem with using it, in the same way we use operator=*.
There is an optional proposal process. For this key, I suppose it’s good enough if we can find consensus on the Belgian forum since it’s a Belgian-specific reference anyway.
I think the keys I proposed make the most sense, but I’m not going to do bikeshedding. (As long as it’s not the 6 acronym thing)
I like your proposal too. If need be, we could have a little vote here as well (based on an emoji vote)
As for documentation, maybe having a page on the conventions with references to “typically Belgian keys” would be nice