Hwy 12 West of Lomsak - changes by BankJakkapan

Riding down the 12 last week, there is a very wide section that goes from Khao Koh down towards Lomsak … it has a painted island virtually all the way until it meets the 2372. To the best of my knowledge, it has been correctly drawn as a single way, with Dave adding lane details… until now.

The above user has decided to change it to dual carriageway putting in arbitrary u-turns and losing a lot of tagging & relationships along the way. Some nodes simply dont link, rendering routing useless (try a left turn from 12 onto the 2372… U cant).

I have written a strong message to him, which at the time I didnt realise what his intentions were, as follows …

If you all agree that this important Hwy should stay as it was … can we go for a complete revert of all his changes. He is new mapper with just 6 months experience. For now, I wont correct anything.

Rgds, Russ.

Goddamn it, why don’t these people ask before changing something so important? I put in a lot of time adding lanes, forward and back, as the number of lanes changes when ascending a hill, for example. It sounds to me like a revert of the entire changeset is what’s needed. I don’t even want to look at the damage right now. It will ruin an otherwise pleasant morning!

I’m trying to work through the chaos created by Malthus*MC and came across a bunch of tags by another user, probably a Czech, who uses name:cs on English names!

What a royal pain this is. Russ, thanks for sending a message to “bank”. I’m afraid I would have been less diplomatic. Grrrrr…

@Dave: Welcome to the wonders of maps.me :slight_smile:

I think we have a dedicated thread to the problems of maps.me. The usage of bad language tagging is a known issue of maps.me.

For highway 12: Which changesets are you talking about? Can you please leave comments in the relevant ones? I did not see a single changeset of this user having a comment.

It is possible to revert changesets. The more they had been altered later on the more difficult it gets.
I can solve simple reverts. For more complex ones I lack practice.

@Russ: What was the response of the user?

Seems he is quite keen on painting buildings. Someone should tell him that corners with right angles are also common in Thailands buildings. Most of the buildings drawn are not even close to rectangular.

His activity area is quite limited. So “only” Phitsanulok affected.


Stephan …

I did have a look at all of his changesets,and was surprised to see it didnt include the Highway 12 problem. But, if you take a look at Changeset: 44616342, that covers the routing problem, and Way: 461335056 (which is an example of a little section of 12 he has added in losing all the existing tagging), the history clearly shows him as creating it.

Way: 461335062 has the unconnected node, and was created by Bank with no other history showing.


Im not sure why the “neis-one” program isnt picking this up ?

I have not had any response from him yet.

On the issue of Maps.me … I have another moan. You probably know that you can make a comment on a POI or report one that disappeared. I used the feature to make some notes on changes needed in Luang Prabang (such as service roads that shud be paths/steps, etc).

On opening the computer to resolve these notes, I see that maps.me users seem to think its a good place to leave notes about such irrelevant stuff as the price of a good omelette, where their Auntie Gladys lives, and even a few Guest house owners using it for advertising.

Maps.me is becoming responsible for diluting the massive amount of notes we need to resolve, and I think it time the OSM community decided on whether we really need this type of data contribution.


Hi Russ,

I had a look at that area. Maybe I missed something important but to me that edit does not look that bad.

It is mostly the typical mapping mistakes by new mappers in combination with bad tooling. Please note that iD was used here. That editor lacks the validation features of JOSM and makes it easy to create missing connections.

Whether it is justified to turn that road into dual carriageway needs survey on the ground.

I checked out near way 461335048.
Aerial images are quite old. Josm displays a capture date of 2010 of that area tiles. See below the difference between Bing (mapbox is the same) and Google. It is clearly visible that the junction with highway 21 was extendend and highway 21 is longer dual carriage than before.

Area on Bing (dated):

Newer Google imagery:

Unfortunately there is no Mapillary imagery available. Google Street View from 2013 looks like road work to enhance that road is in progress.

So without on the ground knowledge I could assume that his edits are actually more up to date than the existing data and it improved the map. (ignoring the tooling problems with tagging and connections).
I would have wished for a better changeset comment than simply “updating data”.

West of 2372 is a similar situation. Bing dates September 2012. Google shows dual carriageway. Also the u-turn is quite at the correct location.
Again tagging of the highway is broken. The existing way features too many lanes which have to be split as well when turning into dual carriageway.

Whether the painted island justifies turning it into dual carriageway might be subject fo discussion. I’m in slight favor of saying yes as the island is quite wide
and later turns into a real divider. On the ground survey could indicate whether on the painted island are also those reflectors which would prevent cars from driving on the painted island.

Dated Bing shows a single road:

Google shows what looks like dual carriageway:

I rode this a week a ago … and repeat, Hwy 12 was correctly shown as dual and single carriageway in the correct places, prior to these edits. I surveyed it on many occasions as it was being relaid in the past three years. Bank has simply ignored OSM convention and made it all dual carriageway, putting in arbitrary u-turns.

If you can make my waypoints appear from my submitted traces, you will see my “DCS” & “DCE” code for Dual carriageway start / end, plotted while riding.

And today, riding from Phitsanulok up Hwy 1275, he has done the same here at the Southern end … the first 50 ft to the bridge http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/16.93871/100.22559 is a normal 2 lane road with a single white line … yet he has seen fit to draw a dual carriageway here.

Heading west then north, granted the highway is 2-3 lanes wide in either direction, with a 3 mtr painted island … but anybody navigating to a point/road on the opposite side of the road, would be routed on the next arbitrary u-turn he has decided to add. In reality, you simply sit on and then cross the painted island.
And that, my Lud, is why we draw as single carriageway.

Furthermore, he has omitted the important road ref on the Southbound carriageway in places, AND failed the connect the dual to single carriageway nodes, which of course now shows me why I could route down it today. I have no way of knowing what other damage the idiot may have inflicted with his misguided efforts !

He has not replied to any of the criticism and therefore I strongly urge a complete reversal of ALL his edits, and then we can check to see if any damage needs repairing… or at least any edits where roads are involved.
And lets lock his account too until he proves he understands the concept of OSM.

Stephan, can you do, or do I need to contact the DWG myself ?

@Russ: Thanks for highlighting that you actually surveyed that area recently.

So we can assume that there is no physical barrier separating the lanes, also not those small plastic ones not visible on aerials:
or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_barrier

You are right that in this case it is typically not recommended to map the directional lanes as individual roads. Still google shows islands where previously was only a single road. These can be mapped individual.

It’s a bit borderline deciding how sensible it would be to constantly map combined/separate lines if they change every few hundred meters. Probably this discussion needs to be done on less generic samplesa of that road which stretches wuite long.

What is certainly bad with the edit in question is the way it was done. It broke the tagging and this clearly has to be fixed.

Has anyone yet tried sending a mail in Thai? All comments are Thai language and profile picture could indicate a Thai national as well.

For blocking a user you need to contact DWG. I don’t have that permission flag in my profile.
When doing so, provide links to the changes in question, changeset discussions and probably this forum.

As this precise moment in time, there are a few plastic bollards but these are clearly temporary, and are there while road works are being carried out on the hard shoulder… Normally there is nothing but paint on the roads.

It was a tedious job, but I have located my waypoints … this is just one area he has f**cked with …

and you can see where he has inserted sections on 12, and even managed to add duplicate nodes on a bridge. The duplicate nodes on the secondary road are unjoined.

I know that from my “Dce 13” point, heading west, there is no physical bollard until the new Jersey barrier at http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=18/16.77085/101.05743. We work hard to get our OSM contributions correct, and then a moron like this just undoes everything from the comfort of his chair … he doesnt even look old enough to drive!

I’m just going to manually correct all his stuff today… routing in the Phitsanulok area is an abortion right now. Shud not be too hard to spot his work as he probably thinks a relationship is holding hands in the park with a girl ! He has forgotten to add then on the 12 wherever he has created road !