How to tag seamark:type=berth by the cargo it handles?

AntBurnett · 2024-08-13T23:45:07.895Z

Here is the problem: I want to use the tag seamark:type=berth to determine all the places where port authorities allow ships to berth. All good so far. But for any given port, say Port Kembla, I need to distinguish between berths that handle vehicles or containers, with those that handle bulk liquids (oil, gas, etc). I’m not allowed to use cargo=container on node features.

The tag seamark:type=berth often includes vastly different vessel capability. In Sydney Harbour, berths range from ferry terminals in Circular Quay to the Overseas Passenger Terminal. There is a maxlength=350 on the latter which might help distinguish between cargo=passengers of the ferry terminals and the OPT. But how would I restrict my filters to berths that are designed for ships not ferries?

Looking for guidance before I start editing tags that might be reverted later on.

Using the port polygon (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:industrial%3Dport) is not going to work as often one port handles different cargos in different parts of the port. I need to know where the containers, cars, and dry_bulk are being loaded and unloaded.

Fizzie41 · 2024-08-14T00:13:51.396Z

AntBurnett:

I need to distinguish between berths that handle vehicles or containers, with those that handle bulk liquids (oil, gas, etc).

TI Search results | OpenStreetMap Taginfo gives a few possible options.

seamark:berth:information | Keys | OpenStreetMap Taginfo is very, very detailed, but in German!, while seamark:berth:goods | Keys | OpenStreetMap Taginfo is much less used but is in English!

seamark:berth:category | Keys | OpenStreetMap Taginfo may also be of some help (although I’ll openly admit that I don’t understand what most of them are about!)

Just looking a bit further though, Key:cargo - OpenStreetMap Wiki is already established & may also work?

AntBurnett · 2024-08-14T00:55:49.007Z

Thanks Fizzie41 - I think I will go with seamark:berth:goods and assign values that are similar to the tags used for cargo. This will get me to my goal, and hopefully create a dataset that solves the problem of where does road freight start and end (as opposed to berths fed by pipelines and conveyors).

I did go down the https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cargo rabbit hole, but it is a secondary attribute that has to be assigned to industrial=port, and industrial=port requires landuse=industrial, and landuse=industrial does not allow nodes.

TheSwavu · 2024-08-14T01:02:19.483Z

seamark:type=berth is a patch of water you can moor your vessel in. The things that provide services to the vessel are harbour facilities. Unfortunately it looks like the tag Tag:seamark:type=harbour - OpenStreetMap Wiki now has two meanings. Then have Key:seamark:harbour:category - OpenStreetMap Wiki to describe what the facility is.

I think there may have been some confusion when this stuff was being copied from IHO Geospatial Information Registry.

Fizzie41 · 2024-08-14T01:54:47.307Z

AntBurnett:

I did go down the Key:cargo - OpenStreetMap Wiki rabbit hole, but it is a secondary attribute that has to be assigned to industrial=port, and industrial=port requires landuse=industrial, and landuse=industrial does not allow nodes.

Can’t see that that should be a problem?

industrial=port + port=cargo on the area, then cargo=* nodes to show what, where? (cargo= shows as being used 5000 times with 4000 of them being nodes!)

You could even take it a bit further by creating berth so industrial=port as the area, then port=berth + berth=cargo / passengers + cargo=*?

Kovoschiz · 2024-08-14T05:03:13.468Z

cargo= has been used on =ferry_terminal first. The problem is you shouldn’t use landuse=industrial or industrial=port on individual berths.
port= is an attribute for type of ports, not a feature for a part of a part. This style is poor, causing various issues. cemetery= , and playground= are the exceptions. animal= , fitness_station= , and zoo= is visibly troubled.

Mapping equipment of dog parks - #25 by Kovoschiz
How to tag a standalone aviary? - #6 by Kovoschiz

Kovoschiz · 2024-08-14T05:46:43.442Z

Ah, I see now. We are missing HRBARE . They should be changed to =harbour_area and =harbour_facility to clarify . https://iho.int/uploads/user/pubs/standards/s-57/31ApAch1.pdf#page=94
It’s confusing. “The term “harbour” applies only to the area of water with the works necessary for its formation, protections and maintenance (International Maritime Dictionary, 2d. Edition). A harbour area not only covers the area of water but also the area of land which supplies the harbour installations.”. So harbour=yes should be seamark:type=harbour_basin for the water area. (I thought =harbour_basin was for sheltered “basins” inside a “harbor” water area) https://www.cesni.eu/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Appendices-Part1-IECDIS_BD.pdf#page=172
But “Terminals are not encoded as ‘hrbfac’ but as ‘termnl’.”. https://ris.cesni.eu/docs/File/468/inland_enc_encoding_guide_edition_2_3_6.pdf#page=100
As “Land facilities should be represented with buildings (BUISGL) and storage tank (SILTNK) or harbor facility (hrbfac)” https://ris.cesni.eu/docs/File/468/inland_enc_encoding_guide_edition_2_3_6.pdf#page=177
So seamark:type=terminal for termnl is missing too. Also, =port for prtare of the entire port jurisdiction. https://raw.githubusercontent.com/cesniti/iehg_gitbook/edition-2.4/.gitbook/assets/ienc_fc_24_corr2.pdf#page=150
There’s a diagram that explains it slightly better https://ris.cesni.eu/docs/File/468/inland_enc_encoding_guide_edition_2_3_6.pdf#page=256
=berth should be acceptable as a point on the shore, when there’s no area Tag:seamark:type=berth - OpenStreetMap Wiki (example 2)
@AntBurnett Technically seamark:berth:goods= was from inland waters IENC Seamarks/General Attributes - OpenStreetMap Wiki (and seamark:terminal:goods= mentioned)

https://www.cesni.eu/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Appendices-Part1-IECDIS_BD.pdf#page=530
https://unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/doc/finaldocs/sc3/TRANS-SC3-156s2apAe.pdf#page=79

For completeness, seamark:*:information= is equivalent to a *:description= freeform text. For explanation only.
Note: UNECE’s Inland ECDIS spec is compressed. Not viewable directly online. https://unece.org/resolutions-1#accordion_4 https://unece.org/DAM/trans/doc/2020/sc3/Resolution_48_appendices_for_rev4.zip
References:

https://iho.int/uploads/user/pubs/standards/s-57/31ApAch1.pdf
CESNI-TI RIS | INLAND ECDIS DOCUMENTATION
https://ris.cesni.eu/docs/File/468/inland_enc_encoding_guide_edition_2_3_6.pdf

USACE has an interactive form for easier viewing IENC Feature Catalogue 2.5.0

AntBurnett · 2024-08-14T07:43:31.727Z

Awesome detailed response - thank you. Better to get the process established before mapping 82 Australian ports.

Kovoschiz:

Technically seamark:berth:goods= was from inland waters IENC

I found this too when I reviewed existing locations. Expecting them on the coast, many were on inland rivers of Europe.

From the referenced PDFs, the feature I really want to map is on page 100 of the encoding guide (G.3.19 Terminal) which has a picture of a Real World (container) terminal and a Real World (bulk) terminal. They can be nodes and are landside. In most cases, this will be close to an existing (waterside) berth node.

image740×720 158 KB

So I will begin adding terminals nodes with seamark:type=terminal.

To categorise each terminal, I intend to use cargo=container or cargo=vehicle etc as per https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cargo

Is this an agreed approach by the members of this chat?

Fizzie41 · 2024-08-14T07:55:10.138Z

So the =terminal will be an area on effectively the “pier”, with cargo=* as a node inside that area?

Kovoschiz · 2024-08-14T08:29:06.186Z

Certainly, you can start with a point. Only need to remember a “terminal” is the entire landside, that can include multiple berths. Eventually, it can be drawn as an area covering everything. Therefore, don’t create any redundancy. Only 1 point for each “port”/terminal.
As you are using Seamark, you should still have seamark:terminal:goods= =containers , =cars, etc, added first. cargo= is for landuse=industrial + industrial=port + port=cargo , when that’s added. They are 2 independent formats existing in parallel.

Kovoschiz · 2024-08-14T11:10:26.833Z

Strictly, seamark:terminal:goods= should be used on the =terminal . All the =berth will use seamark:berth:goods= .
Also, the =berth will be directly on the perimeter. Eventually, they could also be drawn as areas. which would exist on waters outside the land of =terminal (the new inland waters standard) / =harbour (existing confusion) / =harbour_facility (if we don’t want to follow inland standard yet) . To enclose both, the international standard is hrbare hypothetically =harbour_area , however it has no cargo info directly (likely because a “harbor” can have multiple =terminal , and handle different cargo).