How to tag an overgrown path that is part of a hiking route relation?

rhhs · 2024-07-30T18:30:09.940Z

While on a hike in the high mountains, I came across a “path” that is part of a hiking route relation and is marked as such on the ground, but that is completely overgrown by mountain pine so it is an impenetrable jungle (you would need a chain saw to get through).
In one way it exists because it is marked (there are painted markings at the beginning and end of it telling you to “turn left/right here”) but on the other hand it doesn’t exist because the path itself is not visible and can’t be walked. I added trail_visibility=no, but that probably won’t stop routing apps from sending hikers on this path… An access tag is not applicable because there is no legal restriction to use the path.

How would you tag such a path so that for hikers using an OSM-based map, it is clear that although marked, it doesn’t really exist and can’t be followed?

n76 · 2024-07-30T18:38:40.182Z

Maybe use the lifecycle tagging on it. Instead of highway=path use abandoned:highway=path. Abandoned isn’t quite right as is says the feature visible but it does say it is for things that have fallen into serious disrepair that will take considerable effort to put back into service.

rhhs · 2024-07-30T19:13:57.700Z

Of course, should have thought of that myself!

StC · 2024-07-30T19:53:16.422Z

It might be interesting to check with the operator of the route. Maybe the route goes through totally different paths nowadays. Maybe they are (very) late in their maintenance schedule.

rhhs · 2024-07-30T20:18:27.012Z

StC:

Maybe they are (very) late in their maintenance schedule.

Very very likely! I made contact with them some time ago about the Bulgarian E3 long distance hiking route for which they are responsible, but all they had on the location of the route were 1:200,000 paper maps from 1990…

SomeoneElse · 2024-07-30T20:19:59.141Z

I wouldn’t use lifecycle tags unless the path really has been diverted. If it is just overgrown, I’d tag it as that.

ezekielf · 2024-07-31T00:26:11.103Z

Surely there must be some point at which a path is so overgrown that it can no longer be said to exist? The below description seems have reached that point in my mind.

rhhs:

completely overgrown by mountain pine so it is an impenetrable jungle (you would need a chain saw to get through)

trigpoint · 2024-07-31T06:33:06.750Z

Zeke Farwell:

Surely there must be some point at which a path is so overgrown that it can no longer be said to exist? The below description seems have reached that point in my mind.

If it’s part of a recognised route someone will eventually be along with a chainsaw, or take your own

As a minimum report it to those responsible.

A chainsaw may be a bit extreme, but a pair of secateurs is a standard part of my walking kit.

rhhs · 2024-07-31T09:15:53.598Z

I think “abandoned” describes the path well: it must have taken a decade or two to be overgrown like it is now, with interlocking 10 cm diameter trunks of adjacent mountain pine bushes. Looks like this (image from Wikimedia Commons)

2018-08-29_(156)_Pinus_mugo_subsp._mugo_at_Rax,_Austria1024×768 425 KB

There is an alternative track that can be easily followed, so I don’t expect that cutting a path where there used to be one has any priority.

Casey_boy · 2024-08-01T09:57:45.910Z

I know this has been marked as solved, but just thought I’d add…

I’ve created a wiki page to document the overgrown key. I also found a similar option: the obstacle=vegetation tag.

Hungerburg · 2024-08-01T21:31:23.399Z

Please make the overgrown page a link to the obstacle one!

PS: I see, too late for my plea, you already have gone full speed. Too bad, such is life.

okwithmydecay · 2024-09-30T13:09:27.097Z

I have a similar question about tagging a path that is overgrown with brambles.

IMG_20240929_1604531920×2550 833 KB

The path was traversable, though lots of care was needed to avoid the brambles. How well supported is the overgrown key by routers including Komoot? Basically, I want to tag it in a way that says: “here be brambles!”

StC · 2024-09-30T13:49:20.819Z

Ideally it would be a tag that is detected by QA systems that are connected to the operators’ incident system. In France there is an incident system named Suricate, we’d like at some point to feed it with information from OSM, e.g. “this way is overgrown”, “this bridge is down”, etc

rhhs · 2024-09-30T14:08:24.936Z

I tagged the path I started this thread for as abandoned:highway=path. Maybe you could tag it as disused:highway=path because you can still get through and it doesn’t need tools to make a new path.

SomeoneElse · 2024-09-30T14:31:27.132Z

okwithmydecay:

How well supported is the overgrown key by routers including Komoot?

The standard “third party use of OSM data” answer applies, I suspect - you’ll have to ask Komoot directly whether they use that tag. Relatively few (if any) commercial sites are listed at taginfo, and almost none of the data consumers listed there use that tag (yet).

grin · 2024-10-11T08:33:54.031Z

obstacle=vegetation is way more popular and also handled by multiple third parties (like brouter).