How to tag an a food cooperative / food co-op supermarket?

imagoiq · 2022-05-08T14:40:27.555Z

Hi,

I wonder if there was already some discussion about how to tag a food cooperative supermarket (see Food_cooperative on wikipedia – as a new member, I’m not allowed to have three links in this post).

From my own research, those supermarkets are:

owned by a cooperative
run by volunteers
offering local products

It seems there are at least two kinds:

one that are open to anyone, but if you are a member of the co-op you get a lower price on the products (e.g. Node: ‪Le Vorace‬ (‪8909767845‬) | OpenStreetMap)
one that are open only to members (e.g. Node: ‪Epicoop‬ (‪9689746685‬) | OpenStreetMap)

As you can see, I’ve tried to better define them with the use of operator:type=cooperative and access=private tags. But I don’t feel it covers the use case especially my the point 2. run by volunteers. Perhaps it would make sense to use self_checkout=only?

Has the subjects already appears in some mailings lists (like with other keywords) or any other resources? Can you think of a better way to tag them?

Thanks in advance

dieterdreist · 2022-05-09T17:47:18.795Z

what if only the first requirement is true (operated by a cooperative)?
Selling local products: also or exclusively?
Many supermarkets (also) sell local products

imagoiq · 2022-05-09T19:22:33.442Z

dieterdreist:

what if only the first requirement is true (operated by a cooperative)?

Yes I guess that’s the main point. How could we differentiate?

In french, they are called “Épicerie coopérative et participative”. I didn’t find any good translation for “participative/participatif” word and it doesn’t look like to be used in the english definition of food co-op supermarket.

dieterdreist:

Selling local products: also or exclusively?

I guess they try to sell as much as possible local products. By the way is such tag existing to tag a shop that sell exclusively local products?

daganzdaanda · 2022-05-09T21:14:05.788Z

imagoiq:

By the way is such tag existing to tag a shop that sell exclusively local products?

A tag “origin=local” has been used 14 times worldwide up to now…
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/origin
It does not seem to imply “only local” products, but “mainly local”.

dieterdreist · 2022-05-09T21:31:11.776Z

To give an example what I had in mind, and from what you wrote I guess it is not what you were thinking about, largest supermarket chain in Italy is a cooperative:

en.m.wikipedia.org

Coop (Italy)

Coop is a system of Italian consumers' cooperatives which operates the largest supermarket chain in Italy. Its headquarters are located in Casalecchio di Reno, Province of Bologna. The first cooperative shop was established in Turin in 1854. As of 2010, Coop's system operates with 115 consumers' cooperatives of various sizes (9 large, 14 medium, and 92 small), with 1,444 shops, 56,682 employers, more than 7,429,847 members, and an annual revenue of €12.9 billion.

simular (?) structures can be found in a variety of countries,

en.m.wikipedia.org

Coop amba

Coop amba, formerly FDB (short for Danish Consumers Cooperative Society, in English) is a cooperative based in Denmark. The coop has 1.7 million members and three subsidiaries. The Coop Danmark subsidiary operates the retail store chains of Kvickly, Brugsen, SuperBrugsen, Dagli'Brugsen, LokalBrugsen, Fakta, Coop 365 and Irma supermarkets as well as the furniture company FDB Møbler. The last two subsidiaries comprise Coop Bank and Coop Invest. An association of cooperatives formed in Zealand in 1...

en.m.wikipedia.org

Coop (Hungary)

Coop is a Hungarian supermarket chain and buying group with about 5000 stores. In 2015, it became the second largest retail chain in Hungary. This Hungary-related article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it. This food and/or confectionery corporation or company-related article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it.

en.m.wikipedia.org

Co-op Food

Co-op Food is a brand used for the food retail business of The Co-operative Group in the United Kingdom. Prior to reintroducing the brand in 2016, the group used "The Co-operative" branding, which is still used by a number of consumers' co-operative societies in the UK. Other societies use their own branding. In 2016, the Co-operative Food accounted for approximately 6.6% of the UK groceries market.

Coop - Wikipedia (see businesses)

daganzdaanda · 2022-05-09T21:36:45.589Z

operator:type=cooperative sounds good for those Co-ops, doesn’t it?

imagoiq · 2022-05-10T05:59:10.428Z

Yes totally agree with what you are saying. The two biggest chain of supermarket in Switzerland (where the examples are located) have the cooperative (or cooperative federation) shape:

en.m.wikipedia.org

Migros

Migros (German pronunciation: [ˈmiɡro]) is Switzerland's largest retail company, its largest supermarket chain and largest employer. It is also one of the forty largest retailers in the world. It is structured in the form of a cooperative federation (the Federation of Migros Cooperatives), with more than two million members. It co-founded Turkey's largest retailer, Migros Türk, which became independent of Migros Switzerland in 1975. The name comes from the French "mi" for half or mid-way and ...

en.m.wikipedia.org

Coop (Switzerland)

Coop (German pronunciation: [ˈkoːp]) is one of Switzerland's largest retail and wholesale companies. It is structured in the form of a cooperative society with around 2.5 million members. As of 2019, Coop operates 2,478 shops and employs more than 90,000 people in Switzerland. According to Bio Suisse, the Swiss organic producers' association, Coop accounts for half of all the organic food sold in Switzerland. In June 2011, independent German rating agency Oekom Research awarded Coop with the ti...

I guess that what they all have in common is that there is a form of membership which give you some benefits.

A lot of this kind of food cooperative that I am referring to in Switzerland are mentionning one of the oldest of this kind as an example: Way: ‪Park Slope Food Coop‬ (‪248159746‬) | OpenStreetMap
(A small documentary about it: A Brooklyn Story: The Park Slope Food Co-op - YouTube)
I thought about looking at the associated wikidata entity: food cooperative - Wikidata but it doesn’t provide really more specific attribute and the description between languages are différents.

To iterate more about the point 2. Run by volunteers, I think it’s more: the supermarket can have employees, but the membership to the supermarket implies some community works.

I could do a proposal, but I have no idea what to propose.

If we are brainstorming a bit, first I don’t think the kind of supermarket I am mentioning should have a specific shop= either to differentiate.

Perhaps, we could have something under cooperative:XXX=?

dieterdreist · 2022-05-10T08:10:03.732Z

daganzdaanda:

A tag “origin=local” has been used 14 times worldwide up to now…

so the origin of the shop is local? If we want to express that the origin of the sold goods is local (whatever this exactly means), then we need a different tag

daganzdaanda · 2022-05-11T19:03:20.156Z

I agree “origin” is not very clear, but it was meant to express exactly that, the origin of the goods being sold: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:origin

To describe the origin of goods, which are e.g. sold by a shop.
This key is especially helpful for shops which sell goods of foreign countries.

Since usage is still pretty low, a more accurate tag may have a chance.

I think origin could be a sub-key like goods:origin=* but “goods” is used differently already… We don’t seem to have an established tag for detailed things that are sold in a shop, maybe because this is opening a huge can of worms in regard to maintenance and verifyability. I really don’t want to try and update the inventory list of local convenience stores

That said, “wares” is still free, so wares:origin=local is possible.
But I guess people could want even more detail than that. wares:local=yes|no|only could work.

daganzdaanda · 2022-05-11T19:33:59.171Z

imagoiq:

To iterate more about the point 2. Run by volunteers
[…]
Perhaps, we could have something under cooperative:XXX=?

Yes, that’s the most difficult for me. I’ve never seen anything like that tagged.

cooperative=* has been used 62 times already
So maybe you could just find some values that describe what you mean.
For a sub-key, how about something like cooperative:governance=volunteer_run?

Actually, with taginfo I found the keys governance=* (1495 uses) and governance_type (8 542 uses)

governance_type=* can be found on the wiki at Tag:boundary=protected_area - OpenStreetMap Wiki while simple governance=* seems to be used mostly on protected_areas in the eastern USA, maybe coming from an import.

dieterdreist · 2022-05-11T20:37:44.095Z

daganzdaanda:

We don’t seem to have an established tag for detailed things that are sold in a shop

there is some use of “sells:”
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=sells%3A

I believe the idea of the tag is to mark the exception or get rid of a specific uncertainty, not to give a full inventory

Discostu36 · 2022-08-24T06:12:38.536Z

In my opinion, instead of access=private you should use membership=yes.

InsertUser · 2022-08-24T07:48:56.779Z

Discostu36:

instead of access=private you should use membership=yes.

Most co-op shops I’ve seen are open to the public and sell to non members so any sort of access restrictions beyond customers would be inappropriate for those (and we don’t even normally tag that).

Discostu36 · 2022-08-24T08:18:06.430Z

I was of course only referring to those cooperatives where you have to be a member to be able to buy there.

imagoiq · 2022-08-24T14:58:04.117Z

Thanks, it’s a good idea and I didn’t know that it exists

imagoiq · 2022-08-24T14:59:56.003Z

I wouldn’t have thought that “Alternatively non-members may use the facilities, but may have more restricted rights.” as stated in the description of this tag so from my point of view the naming of this tag could be a bit confusing. Interesting anyway.

markkerrigan · 2022-08-24T15:39:14.380Z

A coop is more of a business structure. It doesn’t necessarily change the underlying amenity (grocery store or bicycle shop come to mind). Membership is usually not required to shop at these stores. Perhaps ownership=coop?

Discostu36 · 2022-09-14T20:35:01.090Z

How is that better than the already established operator:type=cooperative?