How to Tag access restrictions for signs without physical barriers

[julcnx]

In Thailand, national parks often display signs restricting access to certain areas or types of users, even if there’s no physical barrier blocking movement.

I want to add access restriction tags on a node to prevent traffic (e.g., access=no or motorcycle=no + mtb=no). Is there a specific tag for such signs, or should I just use the access tags alone on a node?

[rhhs (Richard)]

You can add the access restrictions on the affected ways, for instance bicycle=no and motorcycle=no on the road/path after the second sign until where it’s allowed again.

[hoserab]

Yes, you should use the access=no, bicycle=no, motorcycle=no, etc. tags as appropriate, but not only to a node at the location of the signage: you should add these restrictions to any and all affected highway=* ways.

[InsertUser]

Those tags on the way should be fine (assuming that that’s what the sign says).

There is a traffic_sign=* tag, but these look a little custom for that.

Maybe * tourism=information + information=board + board_type=rules?

[julcnx]

@rhhs

You can add the access restrictions on the affected ways, for instance bicycle=no and motorcycle=no on the road/path after the second sign until where it’s allowed again.

@hoserab

Yes, you should use the access=no, bicycle=no, motorcycle=no, etc. tags as appropriate, but not only to a node at the location of the signage: you should add these restrictions to any and all affected highway=* ways.

Signs are typically for an area which is rarely clearly defined, so you won’t find signs consistently on opposite side of trails. Hence I would prefer to start with tagging on nodes until these restricted areas become clearly documented.

[julcnx]

@InsertUser

Maybe * tourism=information + information=board + board_type=rules ?

That looks like a great fit! National parks are all about tourism, and this tag could help educate mappers on adding other useful info.

[rhhs (Richard)]

@julcnx

Signs are typically for an area which is rarely clearly defined, so you won’t find signs consistently on opposite side of trails. Hence I would prefer to start with tagging on nodes until these restricted areas become clearly documented.

I guess the area of a national park is clearly defined? If signs are missing at another entrance to the area, in theory you could enter with your bike from that entrance, and then your access restriction on the node would make it forbidden to leave the area by bike I would put the access restriction on all the ways that I’m pretty sure are inside the restricted area.

[julcnx]

@rhhs

I guess the area of a national park is clearly defined?

Welcome to Thailand, where rough official boundaries and administrative borders exist only on paper and don’t match the reality on the ground. In some cases, you’ll even find national park signs on trails that aren’t officially within the park’s rough boundaries.

[rhhs (Richard)]

Here in Bulgaria there is a similar mapping problem: plenty of signs where a speed limit starts, but very few end of speed limit signs… so I usually split a road at the location of the speed limit sign and at a location where it can reasonably be expected not to be needed any more (end of a sharp curve, end of built up area, etc.) and tag that section of road with maxspeed:forward/backward=* I think that’s better than not mapping it at all.
The sign itself can also be mapped, but that won’t affect software such as routing apps

[hoserab]

@julcnx

Signs are typically for an area which is rarely clearly defined, so you won’t find signs consistently on opposite side of trails. Hence I would prefer to start with tagging on nodes until these restricted areas become clearly documented.

Fair enough, my response was just a general one. Still, even though there might be a sign at one end of a trailhead and not the other, I would strive to map the actual intent of the restrictions at best I could. E.g. if there’s a sign prohibiting bicycles at the trailhead at the base of a mountain, it seems reasonable that at the very least that trail all the way up to the mountain peak isn’t supposed to have bicycles on it. Anyway, I’ve never been to Thailand; I obviously don’t know the situation.

@rhhs

Here in Bulgaria there is a similar mapping problem: plenty of signs where a speed limit starts, but very few end of speed limit signs…

Ha, well here in Alberta, Canada—other than for 30 km/h school and playground ‘zones’—we don’t have “end-of-speed-limit” signs at all! I’ve quite literally never seen one. And likewise, when it comes to our national parks, ATVs and motorcycles are prohibited off-road and this is generally not posted.

[skyper]

While it is always better to tag the access (or other) restrictions resp. regulations on a way there are situations where the access is denied from only one side without any barrier. In this case you can use a no_entry restriction relation instead of adding the access tags on a node.