How to tag a yacht club?

While working on a vector-tile renderer for seamarks, I discovered that there are 9 different tags used for a yacht club / sailing club…

Tag Usage Wiki status
amenity=yacht_club 50 deprecated
leisure=sailing_club 57 deprecated
club=sport + sport=yacht 5 undefined
club=sport + sport=yachting 23 undefined
club=sport + sport=sail 5 undefined
club=sport + sport=sailing 1683 in use
club=sailing 543 in use
club=yacht 48 undefined
club=yachting 141 undefined, but supported by some apps

this is a bit ridiculous, even for OSM standards :sweat_smile:

I would propose deprecating all of them except club=sport + sport=sailing. Would appreciate any opinions before I write a tag proposal.

seamark:small_craft_facility:category=nautical_club is not mentioned here, because that tag could also be used for motorboat clubs or rowing clubs

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I haven’t checked all of these, but the first one in the list is already deprecated, and has been since 2014.

I added a new column to the table with the status on the wiki. I don’t want to blindly update the wiki without a discussion first, since there are apps which support at least 3 of those 9 tags, and the others have a decent amount of usage worldwide

+1
It looks good to me.

It is clear that one of those combinations has far more use than the others, and where the meaning is obvious it does make sense to choose that one to tag new features as.

However, “deprecate” doesn’t really mean anything once were getting down to global usages of 10s or even fewer. The “long tail” of many tags is full of this sort of stuff (e.g. building=private, 92 uses; see also constructionQ and tech_cabq). What the wiki says is basically irrelevant down here; what will work is:

  • Making sure that projects that only support low-usage values know that those values are low-usage and they’re missing OSM data.
  • Make sure that where “it was obvious what the mapper meant” that more common values are used instead.

The challenge with the latter part is that there are often conflicting tags and even objects - for example here I have a club “laundry list” but have to check that some other conflicting tag isn’t also set. An example of this is here - there there are both multiple conflicting tags on one object and duplicate objects for (basically) the same real-world thing!

Problem with that is what is “sailing”

Sport=sailing could cover both https://cdn.prod.website-files.com/6827c445c70862754dd2c58c/688721194336ef845314fee2_wsc-otb-learn-to-sail.jpg & https://noblesse.yachts/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Foto-1-Famous-15mR-Yacht-sailing-San-Francisco.webp

While https://www.privateproperties.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Willie-Cruises-1_Tim-Campbell-700x467.jpg & even https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ2dqI77t2GvgVXYpxutQ6lcQcKcy4yVznXaA&s will belong to a “yacht club” somewhere!

Does sailing have to be a sport rather than a leisure activity? Perhaps there is a difference between club=sailing (more of a social club for people that sail) and club=sport sport=sailing (where the club holds sailing competitions). Not being a member of a sailing club I don’t know whether there is such a distinction, but checking the website of four local clubs one only lists social events whereas the rest include some sporting events too.

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This seems unnecessary at that level, and not obvious. Eg golf isn’t distinguished by this. Other new attributes can be invented for competitive vs socializing/enjoyment if needed.

Sure, but regardless of whether it’s intended for weekend hackers, or ultra-professionals only, a golf club is still a place where they play golf!

“Sailing” vs “yachting” can be different.

i definitely plan to help with both those points, if we arrive at a clear consensus

it’s a very good question, i think everyone’s answer will depend on their own experience. in my opinion, sailing is always a sport, regardless of whether you’re in a regatta or just cruising around.

so i would say your examples #1, #2, and, #3 are all sport=sailing.

For #4 - if a club brands themselves as a ‘yacht club’, i think mappers would need to do a bit of investigation to determine if it’s a club=sport+sport=sailing, or a motorboat / generic boating club (club=boat? or club=social)

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