Hebrew with Niqqud (diacritics) - עברית עם ניקוד

Communities ישראל (Israel)
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To be clear, nobody is promoting the idea of name or name:he having nikud in OSM.

My intention was to maximize compatibility between the OSM proposal and future standards (in terms of character length, uppercase/lowercase, general structure etc), and I did that by demonstrating how a future standard would more or less look like.

I’ll reiterate.

OSM proposal:

If nobody uses he-x-minnikud, it would die a natural death and it’s harmless.

This is compatible with…

Variant draft proposal:

People actually do write Hebrew in those 3 different variants and this is currently not standardized.

As a side note, he-Niqqud with an uppercase would be implying a different script, which is misleading.

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@zstadler Focusing on OSM. It’s really identical to your initial proposal, with only 2 changes:

  • the precise choice of tag wording is more BCP-friendly in terms of letter case and length (e.g. he-x-Niqqud implies a different script while he-x-nikud implies a variant. nikud uses one less character of the 8 allowed than niqqud, and this gives more headroom for future unforeseen non-OSM uses, like minnikuud or something else entirely).
  • Makes room for he-x-minnikud in OSM which may or may not be used in practice. I don’t have strong opinions on this inclusion but I think it’s harmless.
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Thanks @SafwatHalaby for the summary and the clarifications.

I agree

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So should this be accepted and documented on the wiki?

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One nuance to close is whether to use the term “diacritics” or “nikud” in the English text in the wiki as they seem to be slightly different. “diacritics” includes nikud and a few other things.

Here’s my draft, to be added in Naming -> Additional notes in the wiki.

  • Do not use Hebrew diacritics/nikud/ניקוד in name or name:he. To add the full nikud, use name:he-x-nikud. To add the minimal nikud needed to disambiguate a word, use name:he-x-nikudmin

Note I used nikudmin rather than minnikud as I found the double-n to be error prone and confusing for reading.

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Let me propose a different phrasing to distinguish what’s a must and what’s optional;

  • name or name:he must not include any Hebrew diacritics/nikud/ניקוד.
  • name:he-x-nikud may be used for names with full Hebrew diacritics/nikud/ניקוד.
  • name:he-x-nikudmin may be used for names with the minimal Hebrew diacritics/nikud/ניקוד needed to disambiguate a word.
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Agreed. Let’s give it some time in case someone has more comments. I’ll put it in the wiki in a week or so.

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Added to Wiki.

I might check the standardization procedure when I have the time. Hopefully at some point we’ll omit the X.

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באופן אישי אני נגד

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יש מספיק עבודה חוץ מאשר לנקד

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הדיון כאן הוא על סטנדרזציה לא על מה חשוב. כל אחד מחליט מה חשוב לו למפות. אני לא אנקד כפי שאני לא ממפה עמודי חשמל. יש כאלה שזה חשוב לפרויקט שלהם. ראה את Any tags you like - OpenStreetMap Wiki

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זה לא לוקח משאבים?

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לאו דווקא, בפרויקט התנדבותי כמו OSM משאבים הם לא דבר לינארי. אנשים מתעסקים במה שמושך אותם, ואם זו לא תהיה אפשרות אז זה לא אומר שהם יתרמו בדרך אחרת. ולפעמים התעסקות בדבר אחד נותנת מוטיבציה כדי לתרום בעוד דרכים.

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יכול להיות אך לדעתי זה לא מוסיף הרבה

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+ב:

לדעתי כדאי אולי להוסיף הודעה למשתמשים חדשים שאפשר לנקד אך זה בעדיפות נמוכה

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