Hail and ride in PTv2?

General talk Tagging general discussion
1

The current version of the wiki page for buses says:

Using the roles “forward”, “backward”, “both”, “North”, “South”, “twice”, or any other role is invalid.

Obviously this is a statement about PTV2 routes rather than those mapped with the older scheme which does support forward and backward but the bit about “any other role” raises a question for me relating to hail_and_ride roads.

Is hail_and_ride considered depreciated in PTv2 or is it still considered part a valid part of route tagging under this scheme?

I’d like to either edit the page to clarify the version and either carve out an exception for hail_and_ride in this statement if it is valid or add a caveat to the bit about the hail_and_ride role later in the paragraph if it isn’t.

2

I have made an attempt to see what the current utilisation is like.

My knowledge of Overpass QL is limited (as apparently is Chat GPT’s) so I only have a queries that identify the number of ways with the hail_and_ride role. For busses it appears that 4776 ways have the hail_and_ride role out of a total of 8119 ways having that role in all bus routes.

My attempt to query this to include non-bus routes failed as it essentially involved a query loading all routes and then checking for this role which unsurprisingly timed out. It seems that there are 5350 total PTv2 routes with hail and ride overall.

Sample query

Most restricted query below, delete tags as needed for the others.

[out:json][timeout:100];
relation["route"="bus"]["public_transport:version"="2"]["type"="route"];
way(r:"hail_and_ride");
//(._;>;);
out count;
//out body;
//(._;>;);
//out skel qt;

A spot check on the bus results looked to me like most of the ways designated as hail_and_ride had multiple routes using them with this role, I don’t know if that is a representative sample. I would like to have a query that gives the number of relations that use this role rather than the number of ways with the role, but I don’t how to do that in Overpass QL.

As more than half (58.8%) of the ways with this role are PTv2 I think it’s reasonable to conclude that it is de facto part of its tagging whether or not it was originally meant to be.

3

As someone who has mapped PTv2 bus routes with hail-and-ride segments (example), I’d say it’s de facto part of PTv2. hail_and_ride doesn’t conflict with any other roles in the tagging scheme, and without it, there’s no way to specify that a part of a route has flag-stop service.

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