Gas Bottle vending machines - competing tags

General talk
23

So there is currently zero instances of vending=gas_cylinders or shop=gas_cylinders in OSM. But there are over 10,000 shop=gas mapped, mostly in France. There are also zero shop=gas_bottles.

So going from there, maybe vending=gas would be the most sensible tag?

24

Yes, that was my point as well: we have documented Tag:shop=gas, already in widespread use. On the other hand, the market for small gas cartridges is somewhat niche, and they are seldom sold in specialized markets (and vending machines), but typically bundled with camping equipment, hardware stores, or gas cyllinder shops. If needed, we can discuss new tags for gas cartridges and industrial gas, but shop=gas is just fine as-is.

25

We werenā€™t discussing about changing shop=gas by the way, rather about how to tag gas vending machines.

26

Ok, I asked ā€œCz jaā€ on his talk page if he dislikes us changing the tag to vending=gas and heā€™s ok with it: User talk:Cz ja - OpenStreetMap Wiki

So, does anyone here disagree with me:

  • Changing the wiki page to suggest vending=gas instead of vending=gas_bottles
  • Retagging all 46 current POIs of vending=gas_bottles to vending=gas
27

Iā€™d disagree.

Due to the historic lack of tagging clarity, we should not, assume, or presume, what has been tagged.

Rather than changing, Iā€™d suggest notes/fixmes asking for more clarity on what has been tagged.

As the number of these tags of these objects is small Iā€™d suggest going with a more specific tag. ā€œgasā€ is too general for something that can have many meanings.

2 Likes
28

We discussed it further up, and your suggestion has multiple issues.

If we name it something more chemically specific like vending=propane, it has the problem that it gets confusing when that tag does not match exactly, such as when a place is selling butane instead.

If we name it something more physically specific like vending=burnable_gas_bottles_for_kitchen_stoves it also has the problem that it might not exactly match a case and create split tags, and that it would not match the already 10,000 existing objects of shop=gas

29

LPG (generally recognized as a variable combination of butane, isobutane, and propane) is it then :slight_smile:

1 Like
30

Would be good to be able to distinguish vending machines selling the small disposable cartridges and those selling refillable bigger bottles (or both).

31

Maybe according to the usual schema with vending=gas and then gas=cooking or gas=camping?

But I think weā€™re getting overly specific here and weā€™re also kinda losing focus. Thereā€™s only 450 mapped so far and I donā€™t think any of them are for camping gas, and am not sure if they even exist anywhere.

To me it seems more important that we resolve this confusion before we end up having two different tags for the same item.

1 Like
32

Maybe according to the usual schema with vending=gas and then gas=cooking or gas=camping?

gas=cooking;camping;soldering;illumination;heating ?

we can describe the gas (composition) and the way it is sold / type of containers, etc., but listing possible use cases does not make sense to me. We do not state for drinking water that it can be used for cooking or washing and we shouldnā€™t for gas either :wink:

33

Iā€™ve read Taktaalā€™s proposal as a way to distinguish gas cylinders (cooking) from gas cartridges (camping). Having read your reply, I see his choice of tag values was unfortunate (after all, 3-5 kg gas cylinders are also a common choice for camping).

I suppose something like gas=cylinders vs. gas=cartridges would be more precise.

34

I think it should be something like
container=cylinders;cartridges
or
gas_cylinders=yes/only_refill/ā€¦
gas_cartridges=yes/190g etc.

or similar. Some key that says it is about the container.
hereā€™s a list of some common types: Gaskartusche ā€“ Wikipedia

ā€œgasā€ I would expect to be about the gas, it is already in use a 1300
times without a common system
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/gas#values

1 Like
35

Gas cartridges with accessories used in tourism can be purchased in tourist shops, selected petrol stations, selected motor shops, selected sports shops. It is also possible to buy normal empty gas cylinders in the types of shops mentioned above + construction shops, which are then exchanged for full ones for a fee at a gas cylinder exchange point (gas cylinder sales).

36

The redirect on the wiki page has just been reverted by me.
IMHO we should keep a content on that page for several reasons:

  • The tag is in the database.
  • We can provide information about the use, acceptance and support of the tag.
  • You donā€™t have to look in page revision histories to see what is the matter.
  • Software like taginfo is able to provide information about the tag.

I added notes to use the tag vending=gas instead and linked to the forum discussion here.