I agree completely, especially since the Kosovo bid was described as strong, but rejected in favour of a SotM in Africa, which in turn was rejected due to safety concerns. If Cameroon is going to be rejected because of safety concerns, why not have Kosovo host instead of cancelling the whole thing?
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I want to start this by saying that I have huge respect for the State
of the Map working group members … For anyone it doubt; it is
a HUGE amount of work. For multiple months of they year I was
effectively doing two full time jobs
Hear hear! 
(I’ve never organized a SotM, but been involved with other things.) It’s amazing how much work goes into organizing a lot of things. When you just attend an event, you’re only seeing the tip of the iceberg.
So much of OSM currently runs on volunteer labour & time, and it can be so hard and demotivating, and empowering sometimes.
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The bid from Cameroon
This bid has been rejected on security and safety issues. I was curious
as to the level of concern here so searched for more details via a
(closed) system that my international employer makes available to it’s
employees.
I’m curious does it say about openly queer/trans/gay/LGBTQ* visitors? Or is the advice exactly what one would expect? I know that was an issue.
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Hi Rob,
I appreciate the constructive feedback. I am part of SotM WG but the views I will share here are my personal views.
TL;dr - it’s a different barrier / levels of accessibility for each of us, let us not conflict them but rather, meet in the middle. And I strongly support my colleagues at SotM WG for this humility and decision.
LONG story:
This is a long post but hope you can hear me out.
I hear your point - let us not punish the Cameroon bid with the policies they cannot control (as we don’t punish European bids for policies they cannot control eg visa application and decisions).
On travel risks and policies, By a quick Google search, you can see all precautions and recommendation to “travel at your own risk” in Cameroun. As stated in the blog (which was shortened and simplified), we have closely discussed this with the team in Cameroon. We have considered providing travel transports from hotel to venue, etc. These travel advisory risk (and even the policy against LGBTQI+) does not reflect realities on the ground. One concrete example that Cameroon team gave is that the venue in Yaonde has been used by international orgs (eg World Habitat Day) making Yaonde the safest city in Cameroon. I also had a chat with a community member and they informed me that LGBTQ are free to express themselves in the area and didn’t get punished for it (touches on policy implementation by countries).
However, as much as I love and advocate for an international SotM in Cameroon, I also hear and considered concerns esp from minority contributors (LGBTQ members); and although policies and travel risk does not actually reflect what is on the ground, I am committed to providing the highest safety for all participants. When we hear and cater to the concerns of the most affected/vulnerable in our community and in this situation - the LGBTQI+ members, we cater to the needs of the whole/everyone.
On the Kosovo bid, yes this is a strong bid and there’s absolutely no flaws in their bid, everything is well organized, except that it is another European country. I was vocal and voted against it (To be clear, I am not against the Kosovo team) and mainly because of the reason shared in the blog. To add, although “visa requirements” is a main criteria of call for bids, it doesn’t really reflect on the ground realities - the deeper criteria is that if there is visa appointments. This issue has been faced by community members hoping to attend SotM in Italy (factor in the limited embassy service dues to Covid19 restrictions per country). This was faced by me and I tell you, visa processes are VERY STRESSFUL (and I know you and Dororthea know about this ;). So my plea was, is it too much to ask for a break from visa applications and organize SotM in a country where it is visa-free or less visa restrictions for people from my region (Asia) and Africa?
I also hear and happy with your recommendations. I look forward to continue support and working with SotM WG to ensure inclusivity and safety to all participants.
=Arnalie
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Thanks for this point Mateusz. I believe, if my memory serves me right, this was discussed and the WG saw the difference and value (to organizers and participants) in conducting an in person vs (purely) online event.
To share my own experience and opinion, as an organizer, hosting an online event is much stressful than doing an in person one. As a participant - after the online event, there is less opportunities for networking and building relationships.
I am not opposed to this idea, but I support the WG consensus and decision.
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For start I want to thank you for commenting and response.
But I really strongly disagree with decision and reasoning being used.
It seems to me to be an equivalent of banning 20 most active accounts of editors from Poland/Germany/UK to improve diversity statistics.
Having 20 good things from Europe and 1 good thing from Africa is preferable to having 1 good thing from Europe and 1 good thing from Africa. Even if the first one has worse diversity statistics. At least in situation where good things done in Europe are not done at cost of good thing in Africa - but as far as I can see, 2023 STOTM in Kosovo would not harm 2024 STOTM in Africa.
Complete cancellation of STOTM taking place in Europe is not going to magically improve situation in Africa. Announcing from start that next STOTM is going to happen in Africa and other communities should not bother with applying at least makes some sense, as communities allowed to apply would likely put more effort.
Deciding that even the best bid from Europe will be rejected, purely due to location - after 2023 bids were submitted - is really obnoxious and insulting to people who put effort into this, just to be told that their attempt was doomed from start no matter what they did. With “some richer countries in the same continent run this event earlier” as justification.
It is especially weird as with reasonable diversity metrics, Kosovo event would be improving things rather than making it worse.
This entire thing pushes me toward rejecting any quotas and DEI stuff as counterproductive to actual diversity. And even more to actual targets of the project.
Remind me about Goodhart’s law - “When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure”
In this case diversity was not improved at all, only one specific metric was improved. At cost of reducing even what was being attempted to be optimized and harming diversity.
And I also want to comment that while diversity is worth something, I see no reason for it to be treated as the most important goal. Assuming that STOTM in general would be a good thing, then yet another STOTM in Europe, even in country that had highest count of STOTM so far would be a good thing. Even if diversity points would not be gained from this.
It is a mapping project, not diversity project. And I still do not get how it helped even with specifically diversity.
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Hmm, so we had a situation where both bids posed barriers to some people (as was the case in all previous SotMs) which we could work to reduce but not eliminate. And now we have put up a barrier to all people by cancelling the event and likely demotivated two communities both of which would have brought more diversity to SotM than many previous events. I have to say, I still believe that cancelling this event was a wrong decision. My hope is that the OSMF recognises this and gives you all the support you need to avoid a repeat of this in the future.
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Remember folks, you can stand for election to the OSMF Board if you want to change decisions like this. 
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Is OSMF board able to override this decision?
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Is OSMF board able to override this decision?
So I don’t really want to comment on that, because it’s a complicated, and nuanced, issue.
However I bring it because someone said:
My hope is that the OSMF recognises this
And for the next few days you have to choose whether to stand for the board. So if you want to change “The OSMF”™, this is an oppertunity, and a clear path forward.
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Or at least vote. OSMF elections were multiple times decided by just few votes (I think there was one where just one person changing vote would change results)
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Alternatively, perhaps we could join the
FOSS4G 2023 Kosovo conference ( 2023 June 26th / July 2nd )
(As a separate OSM session under the FOSS4G umbrella)
And if it “happens” to be held at the same time as the local Cameroon local osm conference, we might be able to watch each other’s presentations on a projector over a fast internet connection.
And in the future we could even have a regular joint conference ( with the FOSS4G) , which would be much easier to organise. Anyway, I think there is a big overlap between the two communities.
Kosovo is not an “EU Schengen Area” member;
so maybe it has a lighter visa rule compared to Italy or France;
Kosovo visa rules:
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There is some overlap in the developer community and there are numerous companies that have business interests in both sides, but outside of that we could just as well be aliens from Mars. Further the conference ticket for FOSS4G .this year was 600 Euro plus 120 per workshop, OK when you are there for business purposes, but I doubt something that would appeal to many OSMers,
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… while the other half of the community hangs out on some YM or HOT (un)summit. Problem solved.
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More like 99%…
You are taking @mmd and my tongue in mouth comments just a bit too serious.
My non-joking comments: SOTM is primarily, or at least should be, an event for OSM contributors. Learning what other contributors in other countries are doing, seeing interesting applications of OSM data and, most important, getting to meet and discuss with other contributors.
Its purpose is not to add legitimacy to loud ‘humanitarian’ groups and deep pocket business events, which at best are only peripherally related to OSM.
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When we started to work on the decision for SotM 2023 it was obvious that we prefer Cameroon to Kosovo for two reasons.
We prefered a venue out of Europe as past three SotMs took place in Europe. And we didn’t want to have the double conference with FOSS4G for several reasons, even if there are good reasons to have the conferences in neighbourhood.
For several meetings we worked on the bid of the local team of Cameroon. We asked a lot of questions to the team of Cameroon also about security issues. The aim was to go there and to improve circumstances. We investigated the conditions to make a hybrid conference. So that everyone could participate even if it attendees decide against a travel due to security issues.
All members of the SotM WG were aware of security issues of a travel to Cameroon. But we wanted to provide a strong hybrid part as alternative. So we asked about technical background in the venue in detail and it was “no question of budget” to do everything possible in this direction.
It was known from the beginning that LGTBQ+ community won’t be able to travel to Cameroon. But at this stage I thought the hybrid is a good solution to have everybody involved …
Then something happend. We received mails of a board member (not private, but with board email and board cc) that “reminded” us to the security policy of OSMF. It was not possible any longer to organize a SotM in Cameroon. Other board members asured me that we have all support of the board. You can see in the minutes mentioned above how strong the board put pressure on SotM working group. I cannot find any comment in it that the board should let do SotM working group their work …
In our last meeting we had three options. Going on with Cameroon. Choosing Kosovo or no (international) SotM. We decided to stay with Africa but to work on a venue that is possible for everyone. This is not possible for 2023. So we announce that for 2024.
For me personnaly this was the most sad desicion in my “SotM career”. I felt deeply disappointed about this decision. At the other hand of course we want to have LGTBQ+ people part of SotM. Of course!
Please support SotM Africa in Cameroon as local conference!
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At the risk of just repeating what others have written: There is still no good reason put forward why the 2023 SotM couldn’t be in Kosovo. The original announcement spoke of a very strong application, without mentioning any negative points. In the ongoing discussion, ad-hoc references are being made to visa issues and now the parallel FOSS4G. The former potential issue I can’t judge, the latter just seems weird. Would you care to elaborate on this? Anyway, judging on what has been published and written so far in the “official” channels and here, the selection process seems highly problematic and certainly discouraging for future applicants.
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Kosovo bid is strong enough that we will ask them to repeat their bid in future. We never rejected a “strong bid” forever. Mailand and also Heidelberg participated at the call several times and we support local teams with their bid and also asked them to repeat their bid and we also ask teams to make a “early” bid - even things are not thought out to the end.
here is really no need to feel discouraged by a rejected bid. And also now with the rejected Cameroon bid we try to work with the Africa-wide team to find the perfect venue.