It depends on local culture. In Europe it is pretty safe to assume that a supermarket or convenience shop will sell alcohol.
In my experience when in Canada supermarkets don’t sell alcohol.
Yes. In any store, some product may run out or not be sold. But this is not a reason to do the opposite - instead of one mixed goods store (a wide range), do a lot of pois for each group of products.
An exception is if it is a specialized store (alcohol, meat, fuel).
this is all very expensive, around here price is usually lower than 2 per liter :), like 1.90
50 Baht are about 1.30 Euro …
1 Like
Alright, so here’s my proposal:
- Full-fledged retail gas stations will be tagged as
amenity=fuel. - Standalone vending machines will be tagged as
amenity=vending_machine + vending=fuel. - Specialized/dedicated fuel shops (e.g., barreled fuel shop) will be tagged as
shop=fuel. - No mandatory requirement for adding
vending=fuelat general stores selling fuel in bottles.
This approach provides a clear distinction between the three first categories.
iD already provides presets for these, and “Gas Pump” will soon be renamed to “Gas Vending Machine,” as per @Dimitar155’s recent PR.
The next steps will involve:
- Updating the wiki to align with the micro-mapping requirement to
man_made=fuel_pump. - Submitting a feature request update to OsmAnd.
- Enhancing our Thailand wiki Fuel section with the vending machines and barreled shop categories.
Do you have any objections or suggestions to add?
2 Likes
Great. Starting today, I will start adding new barrels on my way as shop/fuel. But the old ones need to be searched through an automatic script (many of them are marked as Drum)
1 Like
The only problem remains in OsmAnd Maps - when searching for a gas station, it will only show ameny/fuel. To find vending machines and mazagins, you need to search in the search categories.
And the problem remains - after adding vending machines with fuel, it will show all vending machines (not just fuel).
Has someone tracked this issue in osmandmaps ?
do you plan to make a proposal in the wiki according to the proposal process? I believe it could be helpful to evaluate whether we want to make these distinctions on the tagging top level, and what the definitions / distinctive elements should be.
To me there isn’t a “clear distinction” of these items, in particular, “vending machine” as opposed to “full-fledged station” is not clear to me. What is required for a “full-fledged” station? A roof? Staff on the premises? Compressed air? Oil and water? Different types of petrol? Is a CNG-only station amenity=fuel, is it “full-fledged”?
1 Like
Right now, my main goal is to get everyone in the small Thailand community on the same page. This way, we can make local progress on this issue and avoid any more editing clashes.
Trying to establish a global standard for categorizing fuel dispensing points is a tough and lengthy process because each country has its own quirks. Fortunately, in Thailand, things are pretty clear-cut, and we’ll be adding more details to our local wiki.
right, establishing consensus locally is easier at first, but if you ignore the global situation when making tagging decisions, it will likely lead to problems later on. Local tagging agreements shouldn’t be in conflict with global definitions, so ultimately what you are planning to do (define which places should not get amenity=fuel although you can fuel your vehicle there) will at some point have to be discussed with a wider audience anyway.
1 Like
How did I overlook the global context? I created this general topic specifically to gather input from our global community, and it’s evident that there isn’t a unanimous consensus among participants worldwide, likely because of the diverse circumstances in different regions.
I don’t perceive any conflicts with the global definitions; in fact, my initial worry was that the definitions were simply unclear. As @Dimitar155 pointed out, and as is often the case with OpenStreetMap, multiple tagging scenarios can be both possible and valid. However, I’d prefer to work with my local community to settle on a single scenario to prevent any potential editing conflicts.
| julcnx
September 15 |
- | - |
How did I overlook the global context?
this was directly referring to "Right now, my main goal is to get everyone in the small Thailand community on the same page. This way, we can make local progress on this issue and avoid any more editing clashes.
Trying to establish a global standard for categorizing fuel dispensing points is a tough and lengthy process because each country has its own quirks. Fortunately, in Thailand, things are pretty clear-cut, and we’ll be adding more details to our local wiki."
which to me read as if you were planning to establish your own local standards.
I created this general topic specifically to gather input from our global community, and it’s evident that there isn’t a unanimous consensus among participants worldwide, likely because of the diverse circumstances in different regions.
+1
I don’t perceive any conflicts with the global definitions; in fact, my initial worry was that the definitions were simply unclear.
unclear definitions are indeed problematic, because they may easily lead to the same tags used to express/represent different things.
1 Like
I might offer a solution for distinguishing a “retail fuel station” from other fuel categories such as vending machines and shops:
A “retail fuel station” is typically characterized by its provision of a drive-through service. When you visit a retail fuel station, you enter a private property with your vehicle, access a fuel pump for refueling, and then exit the premises.
Conversely, fuel vending machines and fuel shops, at least in the context of Thailand, are typically situated along the roadside or in front of a convenience store. These establishments do not have designated areas for vehicles to stop, meaning that most of the time, customers access them directly from a public road side. Consequently, these fuel options have limited capacity, availability, and primarily cater to customers on motorcycles.
Would this definition apply in your country as well?
A “retail fuel station” is typically characterized by its provision of a drive-through service. When you visit a retail fuel station, you enter a private property with your vehicle, access a fuel pump for refueling, and then exit the premises.
Conversely, fuel vending machines and fuel shops, at least in the context of Thailand, are typically situated along the roadside or in front of a convenience store. These establishments do not have designated areas for vehicles to stop, meaning that most of the time, customers access them directly from a public road side. Consequently, these fuel options have limited capacity, availability, and primarily cater to customers on motorcycles.
Would this definition apply in your country as well?
here there are basically 2 types, those with a drivethrough (and usually a roof and some kind of enclosed building), like your first example, and those roadside, which usually don’t have a roof, but some kind of booth/office (very small, 2 people can maybe stand inside) is usually present. There are also road markings dedicated to the fuel station so people don’t park there, but if there are several customers they have to queue on the carriageway, so space is quite limited.
Unless there is heavy rain, it doesn’t really make a difference from the customer point of view which kind of station it is as they might provide the same service or not: in urban areas both kind don’t typically provide a convenience store (as is common in Germany, due to some legislation specifics there), there will be compressed air but it will be broken in one way or the other in half of the places, and they might sell light bulbs, windscreen wipers and oil, or not. Also the larger stations tend to operate automatically in the night, unless they are on motorways or some important roads. They all have fuel tanks buried below the surface and usually can provide as much fuel as you like.
1 Like
I was thinking too. I have already seen several gas stations where there is nothing but a roof and an old transfer column. There is no shop, no toilet, no compressed air. But I saw a rusty PPT or Shell logo… but, I think, from Shell there was only the price of fuel.
1 Like
Alright, it’s highly probable that this is the primary deciding factor.
I have a couple gas/fuel stations around me (SE Michigan). They are a bunch of self-service pumps and a booth to pay cash or buy small items under a single roof.
Self-service at the pump or at the checkout does not turn a store or station into a vending machine.
I didn’t mean to imply that service or payment method was necessarily included in a station. Most have multiple payments types available. I was trying to say that a “station” implies one or more pumps feed by a large, often buried, tank and roof over them. Changing would break the assumption that amenity=fuel means pumps are available. Especially since it would no longer make sense in regions that rarely sell packaged fuel.
Update: The Thailand Community decided to use shop=fuel for drummed fuel shops and amenity=vending_machine + vending=fuel for vending machines. We made this choice because these fuel categories have very limited capacity, availability, and are not very convenient for most motorcar users. These tags are already supported by end-user applications like OsmAnd. It’s important to note that this decision doesn’t clash with the current wiki definitions.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Thailand#Fuel_Dispensing_Facilities
I think it’s a good time to wrap up this discussion. As you can see, every country has its own way of doing things, which makes it tough to find a single global consensus on this topic. But I want to give a big shout-out to everyone for sharing their thoughts and ideas. Your global input means a lot to us!
3 Likes