Hi folks,
(not for the first time) I have a bus route relation that ID has spontaneously reordered the ways on
Would any kind JOSM user out there be able to fix it? I simply can’t do it in ID because even if I manually re-order them, it will muck them up again when it saves!
(It is ‘roundtrip’ bus route that sorta goes in a figure 8 with an extra dog log… but the bus stops are all in the correct order so hopefully it’s still obvious how the ways are meant to go…
to double check, the correct stop order is also listed here 338e - Newry City Service - Bessbrook - Camlough – Ulsterbus Town Services – Bus Times )
Apologies for not being able to fix it myself Maybe one day I’ll learn how to use JOSM. https://relatify.monicz.dev/ can’t fix it either (as it can’t seem to cope with ‘spurs’ or ‘doglegs’, only loops)
Just in case and to proselytize: When editing items that have relations associated, make sure the whole is downloaded in ID before doing so. Discovered today there’s a little icon next to a relation, which was always there for members, to download the whole:
Since I hardly ever use ID, not aware how long that feature has been in existance, but wanted it since long.
You’re welcome. I did a lot of bus route mapping in Cornwall a couple of years ago. You may think your Newry example was pathological, but you ain’t seen nothin’ till you’ve looked at routes through Bojea, St. Austell.
Can I ask what you’re doing with the data? Is there an app or online map that is consuming it? Or are you just determined to have it complete? (I understand the urge if it’s the latter!)
JOSM has partial sorts, reverse sorts too and then discovered recently for a more complex roundtrip route with side branches (is that what doglegs are?), that sorting the whole 4-5-6 times eventually set everything in order.
There was a comment month or 2 ago that specifically the parts that were used both ways, in and out, should not have any forward/backward role and only needed a 1 time add. Never understood but with PTv2 it is not supposed to be needed at all, so JOSM complains. spiregrain certainly has the skills it shows, so I defer.
Well, Translink (Northern Ireland’s state-owned public transport operator) does publish open data, but it’s of such dodgy quality that importing to OSM would make an awful mess… so less than 20% of their bus routes are on OSM… i’ve just been slowly adding them for the past year or two.
Argh! Well, I’ve gone and broken that Route ‘338e’ again, sorry -
because I added a further route (338f) which has even more loops and spurs, and I had to split one of the existing ways to do it,
so now BOTH those two relations have their ways all in the wrong order again
Route 338f is Relation: 338f (18822054) | OpenStreetMap
and Route 338e is Relation: 338e (18802944) | OpenStreetMap
I can only plead for volunteers once more to repair these on JOSM.
(The bus stops themselves are all present in the correct order.
For ease of reference you can also see them here:
Route relations do not contain enough information that they can be ordered correctly by an editing app in the general case.
That is why no editor should be trying to sort a route relation automatically -ever-.iD used to do that, but that was supposedly fixed some time ago.
To split a way correctly that is a member of a route relation the relation needs to be ordered and the editing app needs to have access to the relation member ways before and after the member way being split (aka they should have been downloaded by the app).
I’m afraid ID hasn’t been fixed in that regard, and it keeps spontaneously re-ordering ways in bus-route relations that contain loops and/or spurs, making it next to impossible to fix things - hence my plea for some JOSM users to repair the mess.
When you say “spontaneously”, is this specifically after splitting a way? This change in ID was supposed to fix a lot of those issues but maybe there are still some situations where it doesn’t work:
Or maybe this is nothing to do with splitting ways?
It’s not only when you split a way. To be honest I don’t know what way they’ve coded it. All I know is that time and again, I incrementally build up a bus route adding ways and then at some point it will spontaneously re-order them on saving, wrecking the route. And when I’ve asked about it on here in the past, people commiserated posting links to half a dozen previous threads and bug reports stretching back years.
Since the issue was fixed a year ago I haven’t seen any new complaints, so you are either doing something that wasn’t or isn’t expected, or the fix from a year ago still has issues.
Either way there is no reason to believe that if you report the issue with an example that can be repeated that the issue wont be addressed.
Maybe one day I’ll learn how to use JOSM.
