Complex Speed Limit tagging

Wondering if “time-based” or temp speed limit tagging are available in OSM. (We’re using OSM limit data for app.)

Example: School zone limits are in effect from 7am to 5:30pm, and during this time a 30km/h limit applies. Whereas outside of this time a 50km/h limit applies. Is there a way to set this in OSM? (I’m using Potlatch2, but can use JOSM if functions exist there)

In addition, construction zone limits can last for months, so it would be nice to edit data here in OSM using the existing editors, vs building our own editing platforms for our app. For construction zones, I guess we could just change the “base limit” of a segment for the duration of the construction and change it back when complete. However, twice daily changing school zones wouldn’t be practical.

Let me know if anyone has seen a way to accomplish this more technical goal. Thanks!

I think you can deal with your school speed limit using conditional restrictions. There is even a sample of a time based conditional speed limit on that wiki page.

Unfortunately, in my area school speed limits are usually posted with “when children are present” rather than with hours of operation and I’ve not figured out how to tag that in a way that would be useful.

With respect to construction speeds: During the recent freeway/motorway multiple year construction in my area I set maxspeed to the construction speed limit and now that the construction work has finished, I’ve changed the maxspeed back to the non-construction value. Not sure that helps. But in cases where construction can last months or years it seem reasonable.

My friend this is EXACTLY what I was looking for (school and construction). Conditional. Exactly! Thank you so much.

I don’t understand how to use these tags yet… lol but this is the desired function. I’ll figure out.

Totally hear you about “when children present”, very difficult to put a formula on. Thanks!!

Actually, do you use Potlatch2?

If anyone does, can you tell me exactly what to put in the “key” and “value” fields?

It seems a bit confusing whether the time restriction goes in the “key” or “value” fields. I’m running a test right now, but would love confirmation as well so my work follows standard practice. Thanks!

Potlach2 is somewhat deprecated. Apart from anything else, it relies on Flush¹, which keeps having major security issues and is itself deprecated (end of life is 2020).

See the example on the wiki page n76 mentioned. The key is the bit before the equal sign and the value is the bit after the equal sign.

So, key is “maxspeed:conditional” and value is “100 @ (20:00-06:00)”.

Don’t forget to explicitly give the default for when the conditional doesn’t apply, such as maxspeed=120.

¹Some people call it “Flash” but after the first time I saw a website mplemented entirely in Flash I concluded that the designer might as well have flushed the site down the toilet. YMMV.

Great Brian this makes complete sense. One final question. I suspect times are UTC, not local. Correct?

Times are always local.

Excellent, thanks hadw! I think I’m set. Will begin using this practice and ask back if any issues. Thanks for the help!

It’s probably worth investigating the iD editor (the default editor on before 2020 comes and Flush stops getting any security updates (or any updates at all). Given that vulnerabilities in Flush appear on a regular basis (see it’s a really bad idea to run Flush without security updates. Not only that, newer versions of browsers won’t run Flush unless you explicitly install and/or enable it.

Ohh that one. Can’t use it. No multi-select, we’d be here for years editing limits. Horrible UX speed for that unfortunately. Will have to keep using Potlatch2 until it dies or they improve iD. Thanks for bringing this to attention.

Or try JOSM or Merkaartor. I’ve not used either of them so I don’t know if they can do what you want. I suspect JOSM can (might need a plugin) but that’s just a guess. Somebody will be along soon to correct me. :slight_smile:

Tried JOSM and couldn’t download data for some reason, didn’t give it a full shot because Potlatch just worked point and shoot for me. Will look into this Merk one too. Great suggestion. New to OSM so appreciate all the help. Very very powerful platform! Very thankful for it

Try again with JOSM. The king of editors. Worth the effort to get up the learning curve.

Thanks for the push Viajero. I will do. If I have any problems I’m going to ping you guys here in this thread as JOSM is related here. Thanks for all of your wisdom so far.

This is not true.

In-browser Flash Player is deprecated. The desktop Flash runtime (Adobe AIR) is not deprecated. P2 is being transitioned from the former to the latter.

I stand corrected. However…

A few thoughts

  1. I don’t have AIR. Or have a need for it.

  2. AIR isn’t even supported for my OS, and the last release available for my OS is from 2011, so I couldn’t have a bug-free, secure version even if I wanted it (I don’t).

3): AIR shares the same codebase as Flush, so is just as buggy and insecure. Given Adobe’s track record, it will always be buggy and insecure.

  1. People will either have to install AIR runtime in order to use it or put up with larger downloads where the runtime is bundled into the app. Unless you offer unbundled, or are prepared to offer a bundle with the 2011 runtime for Linux, I won’t be able to use it even if I wanted to (I don’t).

  2. I tried P2. It made it hard to do things I wanted to do that were easy in iD. I expect it makes some things easy that are hard in iD but back when I gave P2 a try I didn’t encounter any.

  3. JOSM does more, and does it better (so I’m told). It runs on Java, and I despise Java, but Java is not as bad/buggy/insecure as Flush/AIR.

So it’s nice to know P2 will continue to be available after 2020, but I won’t be using it. Perhaps others will. I’d advise them not to, based simply on Adobe’s track record for security holes.

I’m not quite sure why I should remotely care what editor you choose to use?

It depends whether you prefer that software match the needs of its users or the egos of its authors.

a) That is really, really unnecessarily hostile

b) You’re not a P2 user. You’ve said so. That’s fine. OSM has lots of editing software. That’s good. Choice is good. There are people who like P2. You’re not one of them. No software suits everyone. I’m totally failing to see what the issue is here.

We have something in common, then. I thought your response of

to be unnecessarily hostile, in a passive-aggressive sort of way. I responded in a similar manner, but I was making a point: there are developers who respond to the needs of their users and there are those who do not.

I tried it for a time when iD was broken for some users with certain hardware. I’m not currently a user because it wouldn’t let me do what I wanted to do, something that was easy in iD. And I am a potential user. Well, I suppose that’s definitely in the past tense, now. Was a potential user. After this thread, that potential is no longer there. The dependence on seriously bug-ridden Adobe s/w put it way down my list; the inability to do what I wanted moved it even lower; with this thread it’s no longer on the list and will never re-appear on the list. You’re happy with that, and so am I.