I recently found a rest area that had a camp_site node. I deleted it as, according to Service NSW, rest areas are not for camping: Changeset: 188092624 | OpenStreetMap
However I’ve now come across another one (Node: Ebor Rest Area (1811172745) | OpenStreetMap), and I assume there’ll be more, so I’m wondering if I should continue deleting them, or if there’s a better option…?
While yes, Snowy Range is “only” a Rest Area, so no camping or overnight stopping allowed, Ebor Rest Area is apparently an approved camp site so the camp site node should stay!
Trying to map these remotely is going to be very difficult, as it would really depend on what is sign-posted at each spot.
Here are other places where people have posted similar statements from the NSW Gov.:
Where’d you see that? I’m looking at the Mapillary photos from there (there’s a lot) and I’m not seeing any signage indicating it’s a camping site…
It’s listed on various camping directory sites (which, unfortunately, we don’t have access to use 
), while it also says fee=donation & operator=Armidale Council, which certainly suggests that camping is approved. Unfortunately, Council don’t help by not listing any camping facilities anywhere!
Doing some looking & we do have access to Find Rest Areas in NSW | Transport for NSW but, that only lists TfNSW sites, not anything Council run!
Just looking & I agree with you about signage, but https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=-30.40799806686602&lng=152.34592817831003&z=19.9&pKey=1068507064682837&focus=photo&x=0.5388110568919362&y=0.5721578839101006&zoom=0 also shows people camped there in Oct 2024!
I just called Armidale Council and they confirmed this is a camp site, though nothing on their website about it. I’ll add a note to that effect.
Rest areas as camp sites are a tad more involved than just following the TfNSW words. I stay/stop in/at a lot of them and update OSM accordingly;
“Camping” usually suggests some permanent setup, but as an “on the ground” tourism usage thing many rest areas are used as overnight stops with a maxstay limit. This limit is often signed. In Qld (for example) the (TMR) signs commonly says 20 hours. The closer one gets to higher population density, the more likely the limits on a shorter stay length. Larger towns (like Hughenden Qld) have no overnight stay signs throughout. I believe that is a Flinders Council limit though as Charters Towers encourage the opposite.
Many tourism publications list rest areas as camping areas. Some only allow vehicles or rather disallow tents.
Camping areas are also often listed and signed as rest areas. Common in rural villages and often signed in some way. Binnaway NSW, Condobolin NSW (Gum Bend Lake), Bundarra NSW (Lions Park), Kumbia Qld, Dululu Qld, Banana Qld, Goovigen Qld and Duaringa Qld are some examples. These are often maintained by a local council and/or community organisation that derives some compensation from a donation box. Signed maxstays often range from 20 hrs to 3 nights.
I generally don’t add a new camp site unless I see a sign, is already on OSM, or it is obvious by usage. Some rest areas too have “no overnight stays” sign but I never figured a way to tag a maxstay for that. In the past I had created access=no camp_site nodes only to receive many a complaint, so I removed them all. A loss of useful information IMO. It is in fact common practice in AU for a rest area to be thought of as a short term campsite by travellers/tourists. ie “on the ground”.
Ebor rest area (next to the showground) has a sign on the ablutions block asking for camping donation.
Yes its difficult to sort through all the images I have uploaded. As far as I remember the monies are not recovered by ARC but by a local Ebor community group. OBTW there is another rest area of sorts in Ebor closer into the village but I don’t remember it being signed.
Sorry for the long winded waffle.
There’s the secondary key camping(=yes/no):
Marks whether camping is allowed at specific location. Use this tag on natural areas such as a wildnerness, nature reserve, conservation area, or hiking area to indicate whether camping is permitted. It is not necessary to use this tag on campgrounds; instead use
tourism=camp_sitefor these areas.
…which seems logical to apply to a highway=rest_area as well, particularly if it’s not equipped with camping amenities such as water or electricity outlets.
Oh I suggest you revert your Snowy Range delete. I have seen vans parked there overnight “camping”. I have never however stayed there myself as Ebor and the nearby NP have better facilities. Also interesting to note that the Native Dog Creek NP campsite (maybe 10km west on Guyra Rd) use to have a formal rest area sign pointing to it as well, that was only removed when the camp was (destroyed and) closed after a bushfire.
Oh and some may like to read in my OSM diary where I define how I map parking vs rest areas as it relates mainly to rural areas. bob3bob3's Diary | Regional parking and rest areas - my method | OpenStreetMap It never got adequately discussed IMO so I continued doing it the same way.
I would argue that just because people stay somewhere overnight, doesn’t make it a camp site. Just as someone standing on a street corner selling stuff doesn’t make it a shop.
Unless there are signs stating an area is a camp site, I would prefer to see the rest area node/way tagged as camping=yes (rather than a separate tourism=camp_site object). And then only if it has been verified that camping is actually permitted there. Otherwise camping=no might be good to add.
EDIT: Thanks @Duja for pointing out the camping=* tag!
I don’t know how things are defined in Australia, but at rest areas in the United States, “camping” is typically defined as a stay of more than eight hours.
IME it’s not really defined at all. In common language where one “camps” can be pretty well anywhere. “No camping” signs are often seen as “we can stop here for a bit, but not have any permanence” and a red line through a tent/camp sign infers it is okay to stay in a vehicle, but not a tent. Many local signs in fact are quite confusing, so much so that they get replaced by “No sleeping overnight in vehicles” or “No sleeping overnight in cars or caravans” when they conflict with the rest needs of HGV drivers. Australia is still pretty empty, so people quite often just stop anywhere. No adverse signs at public places is also an invitation of sorts, so the lack of doesn’t mean one can’t. It depends too on whatever the local or state governments deems as a correct interpretation and keeping their own business constituents happy with tourist income.
It’s quite a mess, so my attitude is that I enter as much known info into OSM as I can. Camping=yes or no is not good enough and (say) placing tourism=camp_site with tents=no and maxstay=20 hours nodes is very end useful when doing primary key searches. ie keep it all end user simple.
I am of course biased having lived on road for the past 11 years. Those that live in a densely populated urban area will no doubt think differently. OSM though has to cover all the possibilities.
I understand too (and tell me if I am wrong) that the US also defines highway rest areas as having a minimal facilities set (like toilets, tables and water) whereas in AU it is widely variable. That IMO makes amenity=parking far more useful with additional table/toilet/water etc nodes.
The US basically divides things into three classes:
Yes, we’ve got areas along highways without that minimal facility set, but we don’t call them “rest areas”.
Wonder if <maxstay=“not overnight”> would work?
Maybe it would need to be <maxstay:conditional=@ (not overnight)>
That’s certainly part the way Graeme. Different types of stays are also involved and apply to certain types though. eg HGV can stay there overnight, caravans/motorhomes can’t, but cars can if just tired rather than a planned sleep. “Not overnight” of course suggests that sleeping there during the day and travelling at night is okay! I try to side photo capture the signs nowadays in case a good solution pops up.
Also might need source:maxstay=sign and/or TMR/TfNSW/LG legislation. (source:maxstay=operator and maybe maxstay:AU=NSW (like LPO/CPA’s etc)) Like I said, messy and of course irritatingly complex. (Insert laughter here)