Basic problem - translation

I think it would be easily solved, as the data exist when you click on the nodes.

The map does not show any English letter name, if the country is using ciril, or different characters, i think an anonymous language preference bar would be very helpful also.

The user experience would be improved a lot, and the coding effort probably not that much.

The map is the underlying data, so is in all the languages in that data.

The standard rendering is intended for mappers not foreign end users, and therefore shows the preferred name for the entities, which is always that that is most prominent in the actual country containing the feature.

Other renderings, available via the home page (cycle and transport) show both English and local.

Other renderings, available elsewhere, will show various other preferred languages/transliterations.

There is, or was, at least one map, which was rendered with no labelling, and would render labels on top of if it using a priority list of languages (although I don’t think it transliterated).

Basically, if you want to see a map in, as close as possible, just one language, choose a rendering of that map into that language.

Incidentally although I can’t find a FAQ entry, this is a frequently asked question.

OpenStreetMap’s designed as data that people can make maps from, so please do create a site that does exactly that!

First of all:
At first look it was not evident, that it’s a data service and not a map service. I simply lost some hours to figure it out.
My main problem was when i have read through the documents around it, and looked at the tiles providers. (MapQuest is identified as a free provider, but simply i think it’s worse than even google regarding to the price)
In a very small explanation on one of the forum told me, you cannot use openstreetmap, even if it’s my application is free. You cannot event test whether your approach is working, just when you spent a hell a lot of time with configs, and at the end what you gonna do, might not work.

So i think some sort of menu is needed at the top, when you click on that it shows a graphics (component diagram or something similar, or an anim gif), how it can be used. (so i can decide in one moment, whether this map is useful for me), because even if you are making some FAQ, i’m pretty sure you are getting hundreds of the same questions about it.

Where i have seen openstreet map?

Common scenario, how people are ending up at openstreetmap page:
1, I would like to use a map on my website, but i would like to show something on that. - i need to use a leaflet api/openlayers or google map javascript api. (many times it’s not place related data, so it’s irrelevant on a normal map - for example an ice cream car - the position can be static, non-trackable also - it’s just an example)
2, I would like to create a webapp/mobileapp, which can jump to a paid service at some point (we are not talking about millions of dollars, just some), but at initial points i need to create some minimum viable product. (where the user can look at, so i can get some additional info about viability - so i can change my product according to that, although i might consider at the end of the road to make it free, as it might work better as a free service than a non-free service - to fulfill the mission first)
3, Most of the problem occurs with the map, that it’s paid by transaction, which is not that evident to me, what it means. (whether it means , that the user is opening a map, and i just put some point on it by leaflet (mapquest etc.) or google javascript api, and with some sort of filter bar i’m changing the points to be shown on the map (but not reloading the map itself), whether it counts as transactions or not???) - can somebody help on that? - i think it’s definitely would be wise on google map, or mapquest site also. - even on google map, i’m not sure whether i can do it without any payment, and without validating my debit card.
4, there is a real chicken eggs problem using a map on a site.
Because the map should be paid by transactions, it’s enforcing the developer to use a per transaction based business model. I must say 95% of the business is not transaction based, google can know that to click on an advertisement it does not mean that you will buy anything. The ratio is simply very small. It might enforce the developer to use subscription based business model, but many cases is simply not working. (subscription based also means, that you need to precisely estimate your map transaction per profit, i don’t think so that anybody can do that, if so, it would be better than anyone in the world) Have someone related experience on that, or where i can go to?
5, As an entrepreneur, i’m tried to avoid the too heavy traffic cost, as most of the servers on the market has not just limited source, has limited band quota.

I’m totally not sure at the moment if i’m investing huge amount of time to create my app, it won’t cost more that what i can earn on that.
Regarding to my questions i have no idea, what 2500 or even 15000 transaction means to me, if i would like to implement the section 3.

Can somebody have any suggestion on this matter?

The map is the data, not the tiles.

You can use the OSM tile servers for proof of concept (subject to the restrictions mentioned below on how you obtain any data that you render on top of them).

You can use the map data and render your own tiles from it for production purposes. Tile servers cost money to run, so it is unreasonable not to have to pay for them either by paying a third party, or by paying for server time and hosting them yourself.

As I understand it, you can use the map data, but not the tiles, to create a background for a commercial product with restrictions on redistribution, as long as you keep any added value you provide completely independent of the map. In particular, that means you cannot refer to the OSM map in determining the geographical coordinates of any feature you add to the map.

If you do make use of the OSM data in placing your added data, you must make your added data available under the same terms as the OSM data (in particular, if the data is appropriate for inclusion in OSM, that means your added data can be added to OSM without any extra request of permission from you.

In terms of technical enforcements of access limits, a transaction with an OSM tile server will be a request to the server. If you cache the tiles yourself, you are not putting a load on the servers, so there is no need to impose a limit. Third party tile server operators may choose to charge for the accesses lost to their servers due to your caching, but they are for profit, whereas the OSM tile servers are not for profit.

In terms of the finances, I think you are failing to understand that OSM data includes a very large number of man hours, which if valued at market rates, would impose quite a high price on it. Also running the OSM infrastructure, like tile servers, costs money, which tends to come from voluntary donations. The people donating time and money want restrictions imposed on people exploiting that money and money equivalent for commercial gain, without putting anything back into the project.

Thanks for the reply, i really appreciate it.

“If you cache the tiles yourself, you are not putting a load on the servers, so there is no need to impose a limit.”
It’s good to know. I think i have made a mistake on the previous explanation.

“In particular, that means you cannot refer to the OSM map in determining the geographical coordinates of any feature you add to the map.”

Leaflet is using markers. So somebody zooms in somewhere and tag the position, and add a name on it. You are doing something similar, but the difference is, that the markers is very hard to be translated to OSM data (i’m not sure how, but i might not have resource for that hundreds of users tag something, and put back to openstreetmap OSM).

“If you do make use of the OSM data in placing your added data, you must make your added data available under the same terms as the OSM data (in particular, if the data is appropriate for inclusion in OSM, that means your added data can be added to OSM without any extra request of permission from you.”

My users (if i will have any) won’t be interested to add streets etc. (they haven’t any knowledge of GIS, and on my interface they cannot), and if they are tagging (making a marker) for example a hotel location unluckily, and name it with the hotel name, it does not mean that it can be included to the OSM, as it might not be verified (at least not with a GPS device, as they are simple user, i won’t have control for it, i personally won’t add any markers to the map). But my system will contain 80-90% of disposable locations, which does not have any meaning on a permanent map.

My approach is not making money of using the map (it’s some sort of nice to have extra). The markers will be private property (even me won’t be ethical to look at), so not an intellectual one.

In the meantime look at the mapquest. 15000/month, not by day, even if i’m paying for it. A separate tile server would be cheaper.
15.000 a month is less than 2.500 a day what the google offers. The tricky one is, that Google is not a safe bet, if i unluckily will be very successful, google will make sure not to make any profit on it.

So according to what i learnt from my readings, and what i have got from you, i need to make two separate implementation, one is for google, one is for OSM. (at least i have an opportunity on MapQuest to try)

As i understand you, if i’m using MapVik renderer, it’s free (no licence restriction of usage), and i can render things to myself, if my business is growing.

At the moment i haven’t any experience regarding to what the 2.500 number of transactions means daily at Google. (but probably 2.500 users, if i’m loading the map once at login) - as the transaction counts by map load, and not by marker filters. Is it right assumption? (i might create a marker search bar, which is showing/filtering markers on the map)

What you suggest - buy or rent a server?, as i have seen that the server requirements is 24GB, and quad core. I have seen some available for 100 dollars with 100Mbit per month. (Xeon - i’m not sure how many month rent needs to pay to get a new one, have you any idea???)

Using MapQuest with leaflet for try, will i have any problem, to later on jump to my tile server? Are there any special thing to use MapQuest? I wouldn’t like to use any fancy staff, like place (hotel etc.) location, or way-finding facilities.

I’m interested that how much bandwith i need, because it hasn’t been explained, just the server resource, any experience on that?
average user active usage (everybody is zooming in at the same time)/bandwidth.

As i understand, the leaflet is benefitial to use, as i need an open door, if it’s not viable to use google map anymore to switch my private tile server.

As the bandwith on heavy use it’s more expensive than the server itself, to cache tiles on my server does not mean any relief against the idea, just create a new one, and cache there.

I would love to here soon about you. Whatever i’m asking now, i might create a blog, if i have time.

Most people who contribute to OSM have no GIS training.

Most data contributed is not independently verified.

A lot of business locations are mapped relative to existing features on the map, not surveyed from GPS (in fact, surveying them from GPS is what would make them independent).

Also, although I’ve not looked closely at the umap business model, etc. I wonder if you are just a late comer competing with umap.

(Incidentally, the default tile layer for uMap is an example of a single preferred language rendering (French), e.g. Moscow comes out as Moscou with no Cyrillic.)

I don’t think so that you have answered to my questions, which means that you haven’t too much experience on this area, anyway i’m not competing umap. I think they have a tiles server, but the main thing is, while i was reading the war, and tried to focus on my project looking on some google map feature, and looked at the restriction problems, i have realized that umap is not using google map, so it was interesting to me. I think as umap simple does not have any advertisement or hiding advertisement (i have realized some flickering), there is no real payment on it. Regarding to your map it’s a good example that how the map can be used which does not infringe the OSM licence itself.

As the required server cost not that much nowadays, you can have that kind of support from just only some people. Looking at the site there is no support button, no advertisement, so i think they just ask funds from somewhere else. As there is no view concept, and the founders are only two guys at around mid 20’s or less. The main thing, if you are in US, 100 bugs not a big deal but you are in somewhere else, it makes headache from one salary.

If your users add data over a OSM tile (hotel location with hotel name), these data is considered Derived Database, and if the data is released, must be licensed under the ODBL.

OSM tile means a png picture?

I think i have read enough, at the moment it’s too much info and too much licence problems.

My system can be publicly used, but the problem with it, that i cannot share data about users positions related to the hotel or something else, and the purpose is not the hotel itself.

Intellectual rights has been overridden by human rights that’s the problem. Anyway at the moment as it would swallow all my company resources to fulfill 3b, - (coding would be much less or setup a tile server) i would jump to Google Map, so many application is using it (good example of - although my profile would be totally different), if my company is big enough just buying a landscape, and creating my own software. (but probably i won’t reach that point)

Anyway, can i ask to fulfill the 3b point to me (why it’s not on the open street map)? All my questions related to weigh up a viability, and with openstreetmap to fulfill 3b, won’t be viable, as it would take programming effort and hundreds of hours to translate that map, what my users generated to OSM format, and i’m not sure what is OSM. (Is it really some red turned down water drop on the map with some numbers in it?)

I’m looking for legal and viable solutions, not just restricted traps, and it says free. It’s not free even if i’m making a totally free site, as to fulfill b, it would cost me a lot. Every guy can ask me to send it in an email.

Over OSM tile means using leaflet, which is an overlay and totally detached from the OSM itself. The two image is totally separate from each other, so i need to learn what is the OSM format itself, which would be a totally different thing. (so my time would be wasted)

You keep mentioning Mapquest, and I’ve no idea why (they used to have their own underlying map infrastructure but moved away from it some time ago).

I’d have a look at intead. There will of course be other options not on that list.

Freedom is not free.
ODBL is about freedom, not about price, is about rights, not restrictions.

It might just mean that people are finding your postings hard to follow because your English is a little unclear.

Maybe try asking in the forum for your native language?


He hasn’t even tried to answer to my question, just tried to deviate from the real answer (that was my real feeling). It’s hard to follow, because i’m not going to share my idea to public definitely, so i need to explain differently.

For example question like this:
“I’m interested that how much bandwidth i need, because it hasn’t been explained, just the server resource, any experience on that?
average user active usage (everybody is zooming in at the same time)/bandwidth.”

I think it should be clear, even if the sentence is written in rush.

You might be monolingual as most of non-migrant people in Britain, and it definitely makes things harder in this world for you.
You might need to look for some video, where it’s explained thoroughly what it means from purely scientific side in London.

Very likely i’m not on the right forum, not because of the language. I had lots of questions, which needs related thorough experience, but i’m not sure anyone who answered to me at this forum has got any related one, just pointing to licence pages, and explaining real life scenarios. (I’m not a lawyer - just catch up some ideas, lawyers job is the finest one anyway, because a licence doc should not be clear in every aspects, it’s not that possible, but to make hurdle even in a free world is absolutely non-sense.)

Muralito pls. explain the licence 3.b point to SomeoneElse as i think you were the smartest one here. ODBL is not like Apache licence or etc., it’s a very restricted licence either way. (regarding to the “rights”, what you mentioned, it’s behaving like that the openstreetmap as a company has the legal property what people are doing here, so it might be sold to third party, like Sun sold java)

Thanks anyway about the answers, but i think i wouldn’t have written that much, if people are more straightforward, for example what was the purpose of writing that sentence of the licence.

Richard: From a British, i have expected that without any judgment. British people are more focused on the accent, and pronunciation, than try to catch up what other people are trying to say without any superiority attitude. Other people are not stupid, because they are not native in English.

I hope Richard you have understood every word of mine, and in the future you will try to behave in a more intelligent and smarter way.


“Are you Sorein in disguise?”

It’s not going anywhere i have asked my account to be deleted. I’m not sure why it hasn’t been, as i have got back response.


Have a nice day!

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