Asking for advice - road network in Poland

Hi,

I want ask you about some issue in maching category roads in Poland. Unfortunelly we was not able to solved this disagreement on our country level.

There is some type roads in Poland called as “droga ekspresowa” - S class. It’s type of high performance road within Poland teritory, used to connect the bigest cities. High speed is 120 km/h, pedestrian or bike access is no allowed, there are of course two seperates lanes in each direction and grade-separated intersection.

Roads like this in my opinion fulfill OSM rules for highway=motorway.

Problem is, that there are also in Poland roads calles “autostrada” - A - class. This roads are very similar to s class, but high speed is 140 km, the angle of the bend is a little lower, and other technilas differences. For first eye glance, there is no difrent beetwen both of them. Years ago few peoples decide, that A - class schold have highway=motorway tag, and S-class: highway=trunk. I think to point of view is incompatible with OSM definitions for motorway and trunk, so I wanted to change this roads in compatilibility with OSM Wiki Rules. Please give me advice, second opinion, am I wrong or not?

Few examples of S - Class roads:

https://www.google.pl/maps/@54.339903,18.526437,3a,75y,324.51h,77.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spVQgsYFrH-5lBZRn4bRVIQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=pl
https://www.google.pl/maps/@54.319618,18.706103,3a,75y,58.11h,91.26t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sEiQupDREAWcmovVR8zhv5g!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DEiQupDREAWcmovVR8zhv5g%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D100%26h%3D80%26yaw%3D112.0082%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=pl
https://www.google.pl/maps/@52.254096,20.945427,3a,75y,207.26h,99.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBAPeZSCwcVYVQueY4OF2zg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=pl
https://www.google.pl/maps/@51.170404,17.076023,3a,75y,46.8h,73.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8VCspH5lUjj0pM0BuXeWIA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=pl

I think road network with overused highway=trunk is unreadable and hard to understand for not insiders. Trunk jest much more proper for roads, wich not meet restrictions for motorway but still with high performance, like for examples roads which link centre’s of big cities with national network of motorways.

Best
Adam

Hello Adam,

my answer is quit simple:
All the linked roads have an E-number (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_E-road_network).
So far as I know all E-roads are motorways (in Europe).
Additionally: To me the linked roads look like a motorways. Is maxspeed the only difference?

Not all E-roads are motorways, even most important routes as x0 or x5 have segments that aren’t even limited acessed highway of any kind…

highway=motorway have a very specific sign:

No sign - no motorway.

You’re wrong, for example Bundesstraße 11 hast partly “E 53” as identifier.

“Look like” and are in reality isn’t the same. The english Wikipedia says that roads with the reference “S” in Poland aren’t motorways but expressways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highways_in_Poland

Seems quiet fine for me to use highway=trunk: “Use highway=trunk for high performance roads that don’t meet the requirement for motorway.” source: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dtrunk

We do also have motorway like roads without speedlimits in Germany (some of the “Kraftfahrstraßen”). Those roads are tagged with highway=trunk and motorroad=yes. For example Bundesstraße 6 near Wernigerode: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/311257984

But which requirement they don’t meet? The same question fot mentioned B6 in Germany:

https://www.google.pl/maps/@51.8496611,10.81995,699m/data=!3m1!1e3

I guess, roads B category in Germany fulfill subsidiary role, but in Poland roads “S - class” are the most important roads, its a base of our road network.

In Austria there are also roads “S” tagged as motorways:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/47.3311/15.0041

See http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildtafel_der_Verkehrszeichen_in_Polen#Hinweiszeichen
Or polish equivalent http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wzory_znak%C3%B3w_i_sygna%C5%82%C3%B3w_drogowych_w_Polsce#Znaki_informacyjne

highway=motorway should have sign D-9. (As told in post #4 already.)

Whereas polish S-roads seem to have D-7 only.
Those are not tagged as highway=motorway at least in Germany - and likewise in other european countries.
Edit: Trunk seem to fit well for those S-roads in my opinion.

Edit2:

Since 2006 in Austria all different regulations between S and A roads are canceled.
So austrian S roads “fulfill the requirements for motorways” - in reality and in OSM-sense. :wink:

As in Poland there are different regulations between S and A roads - they should be tagged different in OSM.

Georg

There is not such condition according to Wiki OSM. Technical specification of polish motorways is diffrent than rest of the Europe (higher quality). Also all polish S-roads are much better than older german or italian motorways. Problem is complicated and it requeires to know polish roads reality. I guess it’s true, what russian friend said, that we should solve this problem on our contry level. And looks like solving is near.

Regards
Adam

“B-road” in German means “Bundesstraße”, or “Droga Federalna” translated into Polish. The word BUNDESstraße reflects only the ownership, they are federal roads.

Bundesstraße comes in a lot variations. It can be anything from a 5 meter wide road with hairpin serpentines to a four lane autobahnlike road with no speedlimit. Take the B6 (formerly B6n) http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/51.9402/10.5965 north of the Harz mountains. It is tagged as trunk road. The same should be applied in my opinion to Polish S-Roads.

B6n was planned as a motorway (Autobahn) but then engineering rules changed. As far as I remember, B6n is only 26m wide while the minimum for motorways is nowadays 28m so it was not possible to upgrade it as a motorway. Apart from that B6 does not have fuel stations and wayside restaurants, another precondition for a motorway over a certain length.